It is currently March 26th, 2019, 10:16 am

All times are UTC - 5 hours




Post new topic Reply to topic  [ 12 posts ] 
Author Message
PostPosted: May 6th, 2012, 1:02 pm 
Offline
User avatar

Joined: June 22nd, 2004, 4:45 pm
Posts: 1215
Location: Canmore AB
Got my Nova Craft Prospector 16" off the rack today.
R-lite alu gunnels. stored outside for10 yrs.

Two cold cracks coming from rivets. One is 12" long right through to inside. In front of bow seat area lots of flex in the boat at this point. I can take the hull and deform it so I can see the inner core.
Second one is right through at bow approx 3" long.
Briefly looked at the other current cold cracks thread but wanted an opinion on how to proceed with a through n through.
I'm taking it for a paddle to see how the canoe/crack reacts.

Hugh

_________________
"Twenty years from now you will be more disappointed by the things that you didn't do than by the ones you did do. So throw off the bowlines. sail away from the safe harbor. Catch the trade winds in your sails. Explore. Dream. Discover."
M.T.


Last edited by Hugh on May 11th, 2012, 7:36 am, edited 1 time in total.

Top
 Profile  
 
PostPosted: May 6th, 2012, 1:11 pm 
Offline
User avatar

Joined: December 19th, 2006, 8:47 pm
Posts: 8852
Location: Rattlesnake Pond ME
Did you somehow miss this gem?

http://www.myccr.com/phpbbforum/viewtop ... 49&t=39711

This is somewhat more informative

http://www.solotripping.com/community/s ... cold+crack

Best of luck. It seems you are dealing with a mess. I have a Swift Raven even older with alu gunwales and stored outside. Never had an issue with cold cracking.

However my opinion is NC quality is less than sterling. Your forest of cracks kind of reinforces this. You might call them. If enough people call about defective craft they may change.


Top
 Profile  
 
PostPosted: May 6th, 2012, 6:12 pm 
Offline
User avatar

Joined: June 22nd, 2004, 4:45 pm
Posts: 1215
Location: Canmore AB
LRC
I did see the MCCR thread but in my haste(panic) I scanned it and lost interest when the thread went sideways.. I've looked at the Solo canoe thread and will spend more time ascertaining what I need to do.
I intially was a bit freaked that the crack went clean through. Disappointed as well that this has happened after so many years.
Paddled it this PM with duct tape over the crack to keep it dry. There wasn't any flexing as the location is approx 18" from the bow.
thanks for the links.
Hugh

_________________
"Twenty years from now you will be more disappointed by the things that you didn't do than by the ones you did do. So throw off the bowlines. sail away from the safe harbor. Catch the trade winds in your sails. Explore. Dream. Discover."
M.T.


Top
 Profile  
 
PostPosted: May 6th, 2012, 7:45 pm 
Offline
User avatar

Joined: February 19th, 2004, 9:53 pm
Posts: 1451
Location: Atlanta
Have you reviewed the West Epoxy account of how they fixed multiple cold cracks? A sound approach except in cases where a crack is very long, and in a high stress location, so that glass reinforcement is needed.

Prince Charles might've told you that a Royal ex can cut you with cold cracks.


Top
 Profile  
 
PostPosted: May 7th, 2012, 11:15 am 
Offline
User avatar

Joined: June 22nd, 2004, 4:45 pm
Posts: 1215
Location: Canmore AB
I now have had time to do a review of the West Epoxy how to repair a Royalex. boat.
Looks Straight forward.
My problem would appear to be at the top edge of the crack I have aluminum gunnels. Most of what has been written is for boats with wooden gunnels. The gunnels can be removed with relative ease to effect the repair.

If I was to leave the gunnels intact as they are riveted in place and not easy to R&R, I wonder to what extent the integrity of the repair would be affected? I would not be able to repair the crack right up to the top edge of the ABS R-lite. These two cracks are
at the bow with the longest on still on the side of the boat so the stresses should not be high.


Hugh

_________________
"Twenty years from now you will be more disappointed by the things that you didn't do than by the ones you did do. So throw off the bowlines. sail away from the safe harbor. Catch the trade winds in your sails. Explore. Dream. Discover."
M.T.


Top
 Profile  
 
PostPosted: May 7th, 2012, 4:02 pm 
Offline
User avatar

Joined: February 19th, 2004, 9:53 pm
Posts: 1451
Location: Atlanta
Hugh, you can probably get away with it, given that you're dealing with just a few cracks. I would recommend a bit of glass (outside) and Kevlar (inside) reinforcement at the top of each crack, below the gunwales.

It isn't hard to drill out rivets and get the gunwales up out of the way. Often you can put new rivets back through the same holes after you do the repairs. Cold cracks in a Royalex canoe with aluminum gunwales is an unusual situation. Probably aluminum gunwales stretch and shrink with temperature at a rate similar to Royalex.


Top
 Profile  
 
PostPosted: May 15th, 2012, 3:08 pm 
Offline
User avatar

Joined: June 22nd, 2004, 4:45 pm
Posts: 1215
Location: Canmore AB
Update:
Got some Gflex epoxy through NRS. I couldn't find it in Canada.
I found West System Epoxy 105 and 200 hardeners but not Gflex
Following the instructions for fixing Royalex boats from West System and getting some great help via Email from Tom Pawlak at West Systems I patched the cracks. simple and easy to use. As per ezwater, I think I'll still throw a kevlar patch on the inside of the cracks as I did not take the aluminum gunnel off and was not able to patch the crack all the way to the top.

update #2:
Put kevlar patches on. As per suggestion from West Systems I mixed up Gflex epoxy and spread it on the roughed up area around the patch.
I then applied 2" kevlar tape and worked it into the Gflex.
I mixed up 105 and 205 epoxy 5:1 applied it to the tape ensuring the patch was saturated.. The Gflex mixes up thicker and cures slower than the fast hardener I used. I didn't feel rushed centreing the patch.
This AM the patches look great!
I spray painted the outside portions of the crack with paint I got from Novacraft.
Looks too new but I hope it will fade to match.
Thanks to all for your advice! :thumbup:
Hugh

_________________
"Twenty years from now you will be more disappointed by the things that you didn't do than by the ones you did do. So throw off the bowlines. sail away from the safe harbor. Catch the trade winds in your sails. Explore. Dream. Discover."
M.T.


Top
 Profile  
 
PostPosted: March 23rd, 2015, 3:34 pm 
Offline
User avatar

Joined: June 22nd, 2004, 4:45 pm
Posts: 1215
Location: Canmore AB
:thumbup: follow up 3 yrs later patches held but now after pulling off the canoe cover.... FARK :doh: one big thru n thru crack right down into the belly. Three other very short cracks at rivets.
Here we go again........ Off to the Green River in 7 days.

Hugh

_________________
"Twenty years from now you will be more disappointed by the things that you didn't do than by the ones you did do. So throw off the bowlines. sail away from the safe harbor. Catch the trade winds in your sails. Explore. Dream. Discover."
M.T.


Top
 Profile  
 
PostPosted: April 1st, 2015, 10:53 am 
Offline

Joined: June 28th, 2001, 7:00 pm
Posts: 1562
Location: Freeland, Maryland USA
Hugh wrote:
Got my Nova Craft Prospector 16" off the rack today.
R-lite alu gunnels. stored outside for10 yrs.
Two cold cracks coming from rivets. One is 12" long right through to inside. In front of bow seat area lots of flex in the boat at this point. I can take the hull and deform it so I can see the inner core.
Second one is right through at bow approx 3" long.
Briefly looked at the other current cold cracks thread but wanted an opinion on how to proceed with a through n through.
I'm taking it for a paddle to see how the canoe/crack reacts. /quote]

Hugh wrote:
:thumbup: follow up 3 yrs later patches held but now after pulling off the canoe cover.... FARK :doh: one big thru n thru crack right down into the belly. Three other very short cracks at rivets.
Here we go again........ Off to the Green River in 7 days.


Hugh, interesting that it was aluminum gunwales and not wood. I’ve seen an RX Explorer with vinyl gunwales that cold cracked for several inches at each and every floatation lacing hole drilled through the hull.

So, cold cracks do not occur solely with wood gunwales and screws.

(Reprised from a long ago post)
The actual “why” of cold cracks is more of a mystery. All of the cold cracked canoes I have seen or worked on have been residents of the mid-Atlantic region. It gets cold here, but nothing like further north, so the actual degree of cold may not be that much of a factor. And plenty of folks in the northcountry store their wood gunwale RX boats outside or in unheated areas, without backing out the screws and without problems.

So it isn’t just the cold, and it isn’t every canoe, and it isn’t just wood gunwales.

Why would some (few) RX canoes cold crack and (many) others, same make and model, stored in the same conditions, endure cold winters without any problem? And why would the manufacturers not have identified and eliminated the cause?

My (conspiracy) theory – I believe that cold cracks are the result of a manufacturing defect.

“Royalex® sheets are custom-made in a process that combines sheets of vinyl, ABS, and foam and then vulcanizes them together. The Royalex® sheet starts out as a flat sheet, which is then thermo-formed. During heating, the core expands, forming closed-cell flotation within the hull. At the proper temperature, the sheet is removed and placed on a platform, the mold is lowered on top of it, and the sheet is vacuum-drawn into the hull shape.”

I think the important phrases are “during heating, the core expands” and “at proper temperature”. I had a Royalex canoe in the shop 10 years ago in which “at proper temperature” was not achieved; I suspect that the foam core never expanded sufficiently, and the hull bottom had all the rigidity of an inflatable. One of my test paddlers famously exclaimed that the canoe “shook more than Katherine Hepburn on an acid trip”. When I reported this to the manufacturer they admitted having had problems with their oven at the time that particular boat was manufactured.

My suspicion is that cold cracks are the result of improper temperatures during the manufacturing process. Not hot enough for long enough, or perhaps too hot/too long…who knows.

If that’s the case I can understand why Royalex canoe manufacturers would prefer not to know, or at least not admit that they know the cause. It’s easier to CYA by suggesting backing out or removing gunwale screws than to admit that a certain small percentage of RX hulls might have a manufacturing defect at could cause them to cold crack in the right conditions.

(My other cold crack theory involved a man on a grassy knoll, black helicopters and certain composite canoe manufacturers creeping through the backyards of rubber canoe owners on cold winter nights wielding a battery operated Sawzall)

On an unwelcome note, and maybe as further evidence that cold cracks are due to some RX manufacturing defect, several of the cold cracked canoes I’ve seen have continued to crack from new locations after being repaired, much like your Prospector. A friend’s Dagger Caper did so as well and eventually became a worm farm (literally, sunk in the ground and filled with dirt to raise worms).

I’m always interested in buying damaged canoes and repairing them, but given that experience and evidence I’m leery of tackling any RX canoe with cold cracks.

I’m looking forward to hearing about your Green River trip.


Top
 Profile  
 
PostPosted: October 18th, 2018, 7:55 am 
Offline
User avatar

Joined: June 22nd, 2004, 4:45 pm
Posts: 1215
Location: Canmore AB
Another Crack!
After not having any chance to paddle this summer, I took the cover off my boat and went for a quick paddle on Bow River yesterday. Got to the put in and the sun was shining through another crack! Went home got a drill and drilled a hole at end of crack and covered it with duct tape. Crack started at a rivet and looks like I had drilled a small hole previously to stop migration.
Repair time, so had to look up threads on cold crack to refresh the old memories as to how I fixed the old ones. :doh:

_________________
"Twenty years from now you will be more disappointed by the things that you didn't do than by the ones you did do. So throw off the bowlines. sail away from the safe harbor. Catch the trade winds in your sails. Explore. Dream. Discover."
M.T.


Top
 Profile  
 
PostPosted: October 21st, 2018, 11:07 am 
Offline
User avatar

Joined: August 8th, 2017, 9:14 am
Posts: 666
Dang I have this same canoe - going to have to look it over very closely. Fortunately I hope to be moving into a new house soon that would provide indoor canoe storage in a big double garage - please keep your fingers crossed for me that everything works out!


Top
 Profile  
 
PostPosted: October 28th, 2018, 7:33 am 
Offline

Joined: June 28th, 2001, 7:00 pm
Posts: 1562
Location: Freeland, Maryland USA
Hugh wrote:
Got my Nova Craft Prospector 16" off the rack today.
R-lite alu gunnels. stored outside for10 yrs.
Two cold cracks coming from rivets. One is 12" long right through to inside. In front of bow seat area lots of flex in the boat at this point. I can take the hull and deform it so I can see the inner core.
Second one is right through at bow approx 3" long.
Briefly looked at the other current cold cracks thread but wanted an opinion on how to proceed with a through n through.
I'm taking it for a paddle to see how the canoe/crack reacts. /quote]

Hugh wrote:
:thumbup: follow up 3 yrs later patches held but now after pulling off the canoe cover.... FARK :doh: one big thru n thru crack right down into the belly. Three other very short cracks at rivets.
Here we go again........ Off to the Green River in 7 days.


Hugh wrote:
Another Crack!
After not having any chance to paddle this summer, I took the cover off my boat and went for a quick paddle on Bow River yesterday. Got to the put in and the sun was shining through another crack! Went home got a drill and drilled a hole at end of crack and covered it with duct tape. Crack started at a rivet and looks like I had drilled a small hole previously to stop migration.
Repair time, so had to look up threads on cold crack to refresh the old memories as to how I fixed the old ones. :doh:


Mike McCrea wrote:
Hugh, interesting that it was aluminum gunwales and not wood. I’ve seen an RX Explorer with vinyl gunwales that cold cracked for several inches at each and every floatation lacing hole drilled through the hull.

So, cold cracks do not occur solely with wood gunwales and screws.

On an unwelcome note, and maybe as further evidence that cold cracks are due to some RX manufacturing defect, several of the cold cracked canoes I’ve seen have continued to crack from new locations after being repaired, much like your Prospector. A friend’s Dagger Caper did so as well and eventually became a worm farm (literally, sunk in the ground and filled with dirt to raise worms).


Follow up. The same repeated cracks occurred with a friend’s Royalex Lite canoe, so perhaps that material is more cold crack prone.

I hope that’s the last of the cold cracks that occur on your R-lite Prospector. But I wouldn’t bet on it.


Top
 Profile  
 
Display posts from previous:  Sort by  
Post new topic Reply to topic  [ 12 posts ] 

All times are UTC - 5 hours


Who is online

Users browsing this forum: No registered users and 0 guests


You cannot post new topics in this forum
You cannot reply to topics in this forum
You cannot edit your posts in this forum
You cannot delete your posts in this forum
You cannot post attachments in this forum

Search for:
Jump to:  
Powered by phpBB® Forum Software © phpBB Group