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PostPosted: August 10th, 2018, 6:44 pm 
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Before I link this in and publish it on my blog I'd love to get some feedback.

I have a few questions :
(1) other than Prospector and Bob Special, are there any other common hull designs that are named?
(2) how repairable / servicable are Kevlar, Carbon-Kevlar, Carbon-Innegra and Basalt-Innegra. From my limited knowledge I think it is on par with repairing FG but not really sure.

I think that is it - thanks! Please be gentle :-)

http://www.prospector16.com/p/canoe-101.html


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PostPosted: August 11th, 2018, 4:14 am 
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Prospector16 wrote:
Before I link this in and publish it on my blog I'd love to get some feedback.

Flatwater

Flatwater is a way to decribe a condition of the water whether on a lake, sea or river. If you want, 'Flatwater' could be 'defined' as "water without significant waves or current".

Although often used in recreational canoeing, Flatwater is officially meant to designate from Whitewater in competitive canoeing. For example a Flatwater Sprint or Marathon C1 is an open solo canoe, where a Whitewater Slalom or Wildwater/Downriver C1 is a decked solo canoe.
Also Flatwater FreeStyle is something other than Whitewater Freestyle.

Plastic

Materials like ABS, Royalex, Kevlar/Aramide, Epoxy and Vinyl ester are 'plastics' too.
And even Carbon was a plastic (Acryl) too.
Fiberglass and Basalt obviously not.

What you mean is Polyethylene (PE).
That is the low cost version of it,
a high performance PE like Dyneema is sometimes used for making light weight Fibre-reinforced plastic (FRP) canoes too.

Quote:
I have a few questions :
(1) other than Prospector and Bob Special, are there any other common hull designs that are named?

I do not think the name Bob Special is much used like the Prospector name, but in line with Bob Special than perhaps names like 'Guide' and 'Tripper' could be seen like that?

Quote:
(2) how repairable / servicable are Kevlar, Carbon-Kevlar, Carbon-Innegra and Basalt-Innegra. From my limited knowledge I think it is on par with repairing FG but not really sure.

If you want to do it well, it is indeed on par, I think.

Dirk Barends

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PostPosted: August 11th, 2018, 9:31 am 
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I stand to be corrected here, but my understanding of keels on a canoe is that other than shoe keels (which are thin "add-ons" to protect the hull) they are used as stiffening agents in primarily, but not necessarily, lower quality lay-ups ... then "spun" as stabilizers and aids to tracking.


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PostPosted: August 11th, 2018, 11:59 am 
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I dunno our Scout troop has several canoes with keel and several without, and no question at all the ones with keel are easier for the less experienced Scouts to handle in a bit of rough weather or wind. And if someone is being blown around the lake it is almost always in a canoe without a keel - you move those Scouts to one with a keel and problem solved. IMO they definitely serve a purpose. If I were outfitting a troop with brand new boats pretty sure it would be all 15 footers with keel.


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PostPosted: August 11th, 2018, 5:11 pm 
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Prospector16 wrote:
If I were outfitting a troop with brand new boats pretty sure it would be all 15 footers with keel.


I'm thrilled you're getting kids outdoors. However, for flat water canoeing, IMHO, it would be better to teach them good paddling technique, and then equip them with modern, flatwater boats (high secondary stability, higher straight line speed on flat water and lighter weight), and otter tail paddles to enable a higher paddling cadence with less effort.

I am often surprised to see beginner paddlers in oversize boats, bow paddlers changing sides to "help" steer the boat resulting in both paddlers paddling on the same side, gear stacked way over the gunwales, paddlers wearing innapropriate clothing (jeans and cotton t-shirts), using heavy aluminum paddles with plastic blades (Mohawk paddles) and rowing their paddles (pulling with their arms, not holding the paddles vertically, paddling past their hips, not using their torsos efficiently).

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PostPosted: August 11th, 2018, 8:09 pm 
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Ha ha have you ever tried to teach kids? "Teach them good paddling technique". Sure, I do that all the time. Over and over and over. It is up to them whether they want to do it or just keep doing whatever they were doing before because of course teenagers are always right :-)

What do you consider a modern flatwater boat?


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PostPosted: August 11th, 2018, 8:27 pm 
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Great answer. One way to "encourage" them is to consider requiring each paddler to pass a test. Make it easy enough so all can eventually pass but hard enough to require lots of practice. Use fun drills to keep them motivated as they learn.

Modern flat water boats are 16-18 ft long, have minimal to no rocker, 500lb+ carrying capacity ( not including two people) and no keel. We love our Kevlar Clipper Tripper, but the fiberglass Scout or Yukon might suit your budget better. Winonah makes similar models as do others. Any 17 ft canoe over 60lbs is old.

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PostPosted: August 11th, 2018, 9:49 pm 
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Well our budget for canoes is whatever we get donated and can repair ourselves. We have a half decent assortment we've pulled together over the years. I do want to start doing canoe specific fundraising to start buying new canoes - if that happens in the coming year we may be in a position to look at something new.

Though I disagree on length. For youth I find smaller canoes are better - that's why I said 15s. The local Sea Scouts have far more accomplished paddlers than my troop, and mine are not bad most of the senior ones. The Sea Scouts have all 15 foot with keel. I look at them as the model of what I should be trying to emulated.


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PostPosted: August 11th, 2018, 9:51 pm 
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Sea scouts pretty much do only paddling - we include paddling as a small piece of a well rounded program that includes a bunch of other stuff. In a good year paddling might be 25% of our program


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PostPosted: August 11th, 2018, 9:56 pm 
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Prospector, where are you located?

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PostPosted: August 11th, 2018, 10:11 pm 
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Ottawa


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PostPosted: August 11th, 2018, 10:32 pm 
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I understand your budget concerns and that you take almost anuthing that comes your way via donations or low prices. however, given that, I'm not sure why you think 15 ft canoes are easier to handle than longer ones. Typically, the longer and flatter (rocker) a canoe, the straighter is goes and with fewer correction strokes. Shorter canoes are often used on rivers where quick manouvering is needed. They also often have higher bows and sterns, which catch more wind on lakes and thus, need more correction strokes to travel in a straight line.

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PostPosted: August 11th, 2018, 10:39 pm 
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here's one not too too far from you:

https://plattsburgh.craigslist.org/boa/ ... 84277.html

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PostPosted: August 11th, 2018, 10:40 pm 
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and another:

https://plattsburgh.craigslist.org/boa/ ... 84277.html

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PostPosted: August 11th, 2018, 10:43 pm 
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https://vermont.craigslist.org/boa/d/sa ... 64984.html

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