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 Post subject: Fire Ban & Stick Stoves
PostPosted: July 7th, 2018, 5:49 am 
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Joined: December 21st, 2016, 2:10 pm
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Location: Courtice Ont
Just posted a trip I'd like to do. Now I see on the Ministry Site that the entire Temagami region is under a fire ban lol. Being a "fire cooker" that sucks a ton. I was told by a warden at Killarney that my stick stove was usable during such bans. I even put it together and he looked it over. After he inspected it he said because it has a bottom then it was fine to use.

I don't wanna questions wardens I think they never get the credit they deserve, but I'd hate to get fined in another park using his OK.

Anybody now the legality of stick stoves?? is there a grey area?? or does Fire Ban mean Fire Ban, with NO exceptions


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PostPosted: July 7th, 2018, 10:21 am 
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Location: Kingston, ON
I don't think that is true. My understanding of stoves and fire bans is the stove has to have an off switch. By switch I mean it needs some method of turning it off immediately to be legal during a fire ban. Snuffer lids on Trangia are Ok.


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PostPosted: July 7th, 2018, 10:37 am 
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Joined: March 23rd, 2006, 11:21 pm
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Location: Burns Lake, BC
I think my little Nomad that can keep a flame less than 6" is legal.
Burning in a safe area with fire suppression ready is a no brainer.

This is just from the gov't wildfire ban site.


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PostPosted: July 9th, 2018, 6:54 am 
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Joined: August 27th, 2002, 7:00 pm
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Location: Geraldton, Ontario Can
I demonstrated my twig stove to a local CO. He said I would not be able to use it during a fire ban. I will check with the MNR fire guy I know this week.


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PostPosted: July 9th, 2018, 8:06 am 
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"All barbeques which use solid fuel such as wood, charcoal or briquettes are banned. . . "
Technically, this would include your burner.


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PostPosted: July 9th, 2018, 8:23 am 
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Location: Waterloo, ON
Wood burning stoves are also required to have a "spark arrester" to catch sparks from the burning fuel. No twig stove has a spark arrester.

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PostPosted: July 9th, 2018, 10:18 am 
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Joined: March 26th, 2013, 9:27 pm
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Location: Winnipeg, MB
Something to keep in mind during fire bans: careful of where you set up your stick or gas stove. You may not realize how hot they can get. Best option is to use a gas stove on rock.

Recently in Manitoba we traveled under restriction (by permit). The permit strangely allowed us to use the MB provincial fire pits but not our stick stoves since they are not an approved device. We didn't feel comfortable using the fire pits because you have to build a larger fire to cook your meal. We used a Kelly Kettle and stick stove by the water then dumped the coals into the river.

This is where the job gets extremely complicated for park officials. If they saw we were being safe they'd probably be fine with it. If someone else were travelling on the river at the time and saw us using stick stoves and got the idea it was okay, they might not be as safe; now park officials have to do something.

This is why blanket rules are easier. I'm sure many are very responsible but they have to make the rules for everyone.


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PostPosted: July 9th, 2018, 11:20 am 
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I interpret "open" flame as a fire with no shut off and one that can give off embers.
No matter the size of the stick stove (which i love) it can still lead to embers floating off and poof.
Jetboils and the like are controlled flames that are much more contained.


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PostPosted: July 9th, 2018, 11:27 am 
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Location: Brampton, Ontario
The law is open to interpretation by the way it is written.

During a temporary 'restricted fire zone' you may only for the purpose of heat or cooking use a gas or propane source. No open fire is allowed for any reason unless; you own or legally occupy the premises within the 'fire ban' area and in that case you may use charcoal or wood with some restrictions on closeness to combustible materials.
That is the law as it is written today.

I am also a fire burner for cooking, so how do I interpret the law? I will use a small fire (in the pit of course) or twig stove with a flame no bigger than what I need to cook and keep a water source (pot, nalgene etc. close by for dousing if need be. The law states "legally occupy" which to me means my permit for which I have paid to occupy the interior site.

But of course wind and other factors have to come into play and one must assess and use the utmost common sense when doing this.

Any gas burning stove is permissible during a fire ban provided you are 1m away from combustible material

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PostPosted: July 9th, 2018, 12:33 pm 
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I suggest you start here and read the legal acts and regulations linked: https://www.ontario.ca/page/outdoor-fire-restrictions

You are correct that there is reference to "lawfully occupies" the land but I am also seeing clear requirements to also be within a specified distance of "permanent structures" on the same land as a mandatory additional requirement. If you are renting a Ranger cabin you might have an argument in your favour but otherwise an interior camping permit is not going to cover you under those regulations.

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PostPosted: July 9th, 2018, 1:01 pm 
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Location: North Bay, Ontario, Canada
"Forest Fire Update:

The Town of Temagami is still under an evacuation alert. Residences between Jessie Lake and Finlayson Point Provincial Park Road have been evacuated.
Finlayson Point PP and Marten River PP have been evacuated.
Lady Evelyn-Smoothwater PP, Obabika River PP, Sturgeon River PP, Solace PP and Makobe-Greys PP are currently closed until further notice due to risk from nearby fires.
Fire crews from the MNRF and neighbouring communities are hard at work.
Photo taken yesterday, July 8, 2018 by @young.19 from the Temagami Fire Tower.
Stay safe, everyone.
#temagami #friendsoftemagami @ontarioparksne"

https://www.facebook.com/friendsoftemag ... 71643244:0


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PostPosted: July 10th, 2018, 4:34 am 
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Joined: December 21st, 2016, 2:10 pm
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Location: Courtice Ont
Ive read the act and i dont understand the fact that if your in a building you can have a fire or you could have a bbq outdoors as long as gas is used.

Ive seen chimneys with sparks shooting out the top and i had a neighbour a long time ago that had his fence catch on fire because he went back inside the house while it was warming up.

Im with captiancanuck on this one. I respect water and fire, however if the circumstances allowed (bedrock) i would cook with fire everytime. I also keep my sea to summit 10 gal water bucket beside me. Having said that, the more logical thing is to postpone your trip if you can or stay clear of certain areas and let the fire fighters do they're jobs.

If things stay like this then I dont think ill do a canoe trip until Sept. A long wait but definitely worth it in the end weather wise.


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PostPosted: July 10th, 2018, 8:57 pm 
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The law seems quite clear. Thx, Splake for posting the link.

"You can use an outdoor wood burning stove or furnace, only if you own or legally occupy (e.g., rent a cabin) a building in a restricted zone."

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PostPosted: July 12th, 2018, 6:28 am 
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Joined: December 21st, 2016, 2:10 pm
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Location: Courtice Ont
I posted this on the APP fire ban forum...Oops, should have been this one. Need to be able to delete stuff lol.


Sooooo let me get this right...I can't cook with a alcohol stove or a stick stove because there's no "valve" (and I totally get that). FYI .... wanna see how fast I can extinguish my stick stove, when I knock it into the lake or pour 10L of water on it LOL.

However, people are still allowed to smoke with-in the parks with active fire bans. I don't have any stats to support this claim, but I'm willing to bet that more fires have been started by careless smokers then backcountry campers using AS or SS.

I know the Parks are doing the best they can (with limited resources), in preserving the parks and in making the best decision's for each and every PP. But, my point is, if a backcountry camper is sporting an alcohol stove or stick stove I'm willing to bet they're 100x's more responsible then any day visitor setting out on a trail and stopping to have a cigarette.

We ask smokers to use "common sense". How about asking backcountry'ers to use the same (MAYBE, no open fires in fire pits, but you can use an AS or SS on a bedrock surface). Not trying to be a hater or start a forum war, I'm just saying .... so IDK.

P.S. I don't hate smokers, I'm just comparing the safety of our natural recourse's between wayward cigarette butts and various forms of cooking.


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PostPosted: July 12th, 2018, 8:17 am 
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Given some of the mindless mess I've seen in the backcountry expecting (hoping) many of these same perps to use "common sense" would make for shortsighted fire prevention policy. It is far simpler to have basic rules in place that are easy to understand and follow, and hopefully enforce. It's not that hard to take a fuel stove for fire ban situations, and camp carefully. I have all three types of cook arrangements and far prefer the stick stove and open fire methods, but have had to resort to my little Peak 1 during bans. It's not that hard to do, though less fun. I don't make the rules but do try to follow them. The AS ban doesn't entirely make sense given I can just "shut it off" with a cap cover but it isn't worth the bother arguing which stove I can use. In the present fire risk conditions I prefer to just stay home.


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