View topic - Campsite improvements. What's acceptable?

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PostPosted: October 16th, 2018, 5:39 pm 
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Location: Guelph, Ontario
BTW Does anyone know how the Dumoine is Classified as a park? and thus what management plan might exist or "Friends of" type organization service


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PostPosted: October 16th, 2018, 6:17 pm 
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The Dumoine runs through crown land parts of it are under the ZEC system, ZEC Kipawa for the headwaters, ZEC Dumoine and ZEC Rapides-des-Joachims for the lower.

https://www.reseauzec.com/

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PostPosted: October 16th, 2018, 9:52 pm 
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thanks but alas, I'm not bilingual and it appears that any doc about how the park is to be kept (campsite improvements) is in french.


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PostPosted: October 17th, 2018, 9:59 am 
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That means the rules only apply if you speak French - so have at it!


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PostPosted: October 17th, 2018, 10:18 am 
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Dave_k wrote:
thanks but alas, I'm not bilingual and it appears that any doc about how the park is to be kept (campsite improvements) is in french.


I'm not sure if it's because I'm using Chrome as my browser, but when I open the link, I get a pop-up box that asks me if I want the page(s) translated, and when I agree ... voila, en Anglais!!!


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PostPosted: October 17th, 2018, 12:30 pm 
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Yes, Safari didn't do that and if I wanted to spend the time I could use Google translate. I was hoping someone would save me the time searching and just tell if there is some policy on the Dumoine that I broke.


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PostPosted: October 24th, 2018, 7:03 am 
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So what is the difference between a campsite improvement and clearing a new portage trail?

Is there one?


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PostPosted: October 24th, 2018, 7:28 am 
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Contactez le zec Dumoine et le parque super ou le management directeur reponds... ici:

https://www.reseauzec.com/bottin

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PostPosted: October 24th, 2018, 9:20 am 
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Prospector16 wrote:
So what is the difference between a campsite improvement and clearing a new portage trail?

Is there one?


Good question, if it really is a "new" trail over crown land, then you might actually require a permit in Ontario:

https://www.parrysound.com/news-story/4258774-men-fined-for-cutting-trail-over-crown-land/

Backing up to a little safer ground, I think the same question applies to clearing an existing portage trail. There I think the difference between maintaining a portage trail and improving a campsite is purely psychological rather than ethical. Folks walking over a portage trail that has had brush and deadfall cleared back, or even some stairs built, generally don't see that as "oh god someone built something". On the other hand a campsite with a table lashed together 'feels' different.

Personally I'm happy with that kind of improvement. I've also seen some really good campsites with fairly permanent frames for tarps. In the long run I expect they result in less impact.

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PostPosted: October 24th, 2018, 9:28 am 
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Regarding the difference between portage clearing and campsite "improvements", I think we can all agree that clearing a trail serves everyone and improves safety as well as travel. What an "improvement" is is much more subjective. Those of us into "leave no trace" think an improved campsite is one with as few marks of human visit as possible. After a thunderbox and a small fire ring I tend to see degradation rather than improvement.


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PostPosted: October 24th, 2018, 11:52 am 
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Interesting story link from 2012/3 thanks. For those that don't go it, mentioned is two property owners after being refused a permit 'had rented a backhoe and were busily building a road',
'officer arrived to find what he described as some definite mayhem.Trees had been cut, swamp destroyed and rock overturned'.
and We went to check it again, and they’d basically just carried on right to where their property was.”The logging road was left for Mother Nature to clean up, but with its continued use, the ministry is now considering blocking the entrance.

A whole lot more than swacking a 18inch wide walking path but interesting to know.


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PostPosted: October 26th, 2018, 2:58 pm 
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Peter K. wrote:
Regarding the difference between portage clearing and campsite "improvements", I think we can all agree that clearing a trail serves everyone and improves safety as well as travel. What an "improvement" is is much more subjective. Those of us into "leave no trace" think an improved campsite is one with as few marks of human visit as possible. After a thunderbox and a small fire ring I tend to see degradation rather than improvement.


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PostPosted: October 26th, 2018, 3:36 pm 
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Peter K. wrote:
After a thunderbox and a small fire ring I tend to see degradation rather than improvement.


I agree, and I have no problem hauling a portable wag bag toilet system along, whether required or just personally convenient on heavily used site. Or even skipping a fire, especially when solo.

I have no problem with a hewn seating log near the fire, although I am more likely to use it as an ottoman and a place to set things out of the dirt and duff. Hell, on a near backcountry site if there is a picnic table I’m gonna use it, although I’ll set the tarp up elsewhere as weather appropriate.

I would rather not see a collection of old fire grates that someone managed to haul in but not out, raggedy assed plywood “shelves” or nails in trees, typically with six inches of triple granny knotted yellow poly cord still attached someone couldn’t get untied and elected to cut and leave behind. Gee thanks, just what I wanted.

I caught holy hell for saying this here once - I was somehow presumed be destroying precious First Nation artifacts (on lower Susquehanna River sites that see campers every day from April through November) - but a heavily used site with a half dozen poorly situated stone fire circles is a pet peeve.

The last thing I found on a site that disturbed me was a cunningly constructed shelf, built chest high between two trees, using two found wood laterals and several dozen 12 inch long dry wood branches, tied and intricately woven to make a platform. It was quite sturdy, and must have taken hours to construct, and the downed wood part was almost attractive.

Except that it was woven together with found bits of twine and cord, and was unnatural ugly as sin.

Made for great dry fire starter wood though, and I carried out the fugly twine in my trash bag.


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PostPosted: October 28th, 2018, 3:49 pm 
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We prefer clean sites and cart our chairs in. We have in past improved existing fireplaces and in one case moved one which was clearly put in a firehazard location where only a couple meters away was flat rock and better wind shelter.

We've also added a cairn on ports that are getting overgrown or there was a V in the path with one branch clearly desirable.
Some difficult to find Port entrances we renewed flag tape where there was some in past but faded (but not parks where axes blazed are the norm). We'also cleared smaller trees fallen across ports where we could with my foldable buck saw.

I don't really like furniture at sites. If it is there we tolerate it but don't use it and we certainly don't build any. Also it's not uncommon to find burnable garbage not burned in pit which we try to take care of.

Biggest peeves - unburnables attempted to be burned in pit. Huge logs that some silly person tried to burn in a pit. Tampon applicators on ground. Toilette paper really close to waters edge. Axe Mark's in large living trees. Girdled birch trees. Fish hooks on ground presenting a stepping hazard. Neighbors yipping it up in the night like a pack of coyotes.


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