View topic - The journal of Moffatt-party participant Ed Lanouette

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PostPosted: June 15th, 2018, 12:08 pm 
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Thanks to Ed ("Joe") Lanouette and his daughter Elizabeth Emge (who transcribed the handwritten original from the 1955 trip), his journal is now available. I note that the last entry is for 16 September.
Thanks also to Marilyn, who provided the space.
I expect to post more Moffatt material here.
Allan

Directory.
The limit of 60,000 characters required 8 posts.
Post 1 of 8. 16 June to 1 July.
http://www.myccr.com/phpbbforum/viewtop ... 81&t=46535
Post 2 of 8. 2 July to 16 July.
http://www.myccr.com/phpbbforum/viewtop ... 81&t=46555
Post 3 of 8. 17 July to 28 July.
http://www.myccr.com/phpbbforum/viewtop ... 81&t=46557
Post 4 of 8. 29 July to 7 August.
http://www.myccr.com/phpbbforum/viewtop ... 81&t=46561
Post 5 of 8. 8 August to 20 August.
http://www.myccr.com/phpbbforum/viewtop ... 81&t=46610
Post 6 of 8. 21 August to 2 September.
http://www.myccr.com/phpbbforum/viewtop ... 81&t=46696
Post 7 of 8. 3 September to 10 September.
http://www.myccr.com/phpbbforum/viewtop ... 81&t=46737
Post 8 of 8. 11 September to 16 September.
http://www.myccr.com/phpbbforum/viewtop ... 81&t=46738

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PostPosted: June 18th, 2018, 8:24 am 
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This looks like a great read, Allen, thanks for posting... out of books right now too.

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PostPosted: June 20th, 2018, 6:13 pm 
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Thanks.
I'd be pleased to try to answer questions.

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PostPosted: June 21st, 2018, 6:37 am 
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Hi Allan, I've only read the first several days and will get into it on the weekend. This isn't the first time I've seen reference to the Moffat trip here... being totally ignorant about why the attention, the most I can recall is this was a disaster trip with starvation and deaths?

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PostPosted: June 22nd, 2018, 1:12 pm 
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Deaths. One (Moffatt), in the afternoon of 14 September 1955.

Starvation. The evidence of participant LeFavour for that day.
Up to that point we had shot five caribou and by doing so had saved enough meat to see us through. Now it was not even necessary to spend time hunting. [The Evening Recorder, Amsterdam NY. Part 3 of 4, page 8, 29 December (1955).]

Thanks for the interest. Allan

EDIT. URL for the Main text of my blog In Defence of Arthur Moffatt.
http://defence-arthurmoffatt.ca/2017/09/08/main-text/

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PostPosted: December 3rd, 2018, 7:00 am 
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Alan, I must take issue with the using of a 50 year old journal as exculpatory evidence for Moffatt. Any reliance upon Tyrrell's description was a flaw. I have been on rivers enough over decades to appreciate rivers change. Water levels change them and events over time change them. Violence during "ice out" most definitely can change the nature of rapids and over the years it can be significant. If Moffatt used and relied upon Tryrrell's journal to run the Dubawnt as you used and relied upon it to explain why what happened happened, it was a flaw. I believe that to be a viable argument. I never used any journal other than as a general guide and one never runs rapids using general guides for particulars.


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PostPosted: December 3rd, 2018, 11:07 pm 
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Thanks to David for the opportunity to clarify the matter.

If Moffatt had been flown in to the head of the rapids where he died, or not far above them, then I agree completely: There was no reason for him to trust J B Tyrrell's description of those rapids.

But such is not the case.

Moffatt had used JBT's rapids advice for all of July, all of August and two weeks in September.
Over those 11 weeks, surely he would have noticed significant differences between JBT's descriptions and his experiences, and so he would not have trusted them in the afternoon of 14 September.

EDIT.
Before then, the Moffatt party had experienced not one dump, not one pin and but one swamp; indeed, the only dumps of the entire trip occurred then.
Again, the external URL of my Moffatt blog. http://defence-arthurmoffatt.ca/2017/09/08/main-text/

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PostPosted: December 5th, 2018, 7:30 pm 
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Alan: "Moffatt had used JBT's rapids advice for all of July, all of August and two weeks in September.
Over those 11 weeks, surely he would have noticed significant differences between JBT's descriptions and his experiences,"... (me) and would have noted the differences. I am not as intimate with Moffatt as you Alan so I rely upon you to provide evidence that Moffatt/ or anyone did indeed provide journal entries describing anomalies between Tryell's description and Moffatt's experience 50 years later. The game is afoot and defeat is not an option! :lol:


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PostPosted: December 6th, 2018, 12:55 pm 
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Hi David,
I refer you in particular to the following evidence of George Luste
Art Moffatt, following Tyrrell’s notes, was not expecting the rapid in which he swamped and then died. [Grinnell book, p 284],
more generally to the evidence provided in my blog, especially that in my Main text.
http://defence-arthurmoffatt.ca/2017/09/08/main-text/
Regards, Allan

For the convenience of the reader, I provide here both
David's first post (that of Mon Dec 03, 2018 8:00 am),

Alan, I must take issue with the using of a 50 year old journal as exculpatory evidence for Moffatt. Any reliance upon Tyrrell's description was a flaw. I have been on rivers enough over decades to appreciate rivers change. Water levels change them and events over time change them. Violence during "ice out" most definitely can change the nature of rapids and over the years it can be significant. If Moffatt used and relied upon Tryrrell's journal to run the Dubawnt as you used and relied upon it to explain why what happened happened, it was a flaw. I believe that to be a viable argument. I never used any journal other than as a general guide and one never runs rapids using general guides for particulars.

and his second post (that of Wed Dec 05, 2018 8:30 pm).
Alan: "Moffatt had used JBT's rapids advice for all of July, all of August and two weeks in September.
Over those 11 weeks, surely he would have noticed significant differences between JBT's descriptions and his experiences,"... (me) and would have noted the differences. I am not as intimate with Moffatt as you Alan so I rely upon you to provide evidence that Moffatt/ or anyone did indeed provide journal entries describing anomalies between Tryell's description and Moffatt's experience 50 years later. The game is afoot and defeat is not an option! :lol:

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PostPosted: December 6th, 2018, 4:00 pm 
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From Alan's post: Art Moffatt, following Tyrrell’s notes, was not expecting the rapid in which he swamped and then died. [Grinnell book, p 284],

From Demello's post: Any reliance upon Tyrrell's description was a flaw.

I do believe Luste supports my argument if I remember correctly the suspect rapids were missing from Tyrrell's journal therefore Moffatt wouldn't have expected them.


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PostPosted: December 6th, 2018, 5:31 pm 
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My point is that J B Tyrrell's descriptions of rapids upstream from those where he died were so accurate that his party had previously experienced not one dump, not one pin, and but one swamp (on a highly dangerous river) previous to the afternoon of 14 September.
I conclude that he had full reason to trust JBT's advice later that same day.
Summary. The cause of his death was incorrect advice from a source that he had full reason to trust. And I see no reason for an LOL about his death.
Allan

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PostPosted: December 6th, 2018, 8:45 pm 
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Alan: "The cause of his death was incorrect advice from a source that he had full reason to trust. And I see no reason for an LOL about his death.

Neither do I. But I rest on my argument that Moffatt's near religious faith in Tyrell's journal was seminal to the fatal event, thus a flaw. Reagan said it best "trust but verify" I remember from the readings there was an urgency to move along and that coupled with blind faith in Tyrell's journal of no further rapids combined to cloud judgement contributed to the fatal event. Also what might be argued was the leaving Moffatt alone soaking wet from cold water in raw weather. I have been in those cold waters when the sun is low on the horizon and had first stage hypothermia symptoms. Difficult not to notice.


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PostPosted: December 6th, 2018, 9:01 pm 
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Perhaps you should read the evidence before expressing an opinion of a dead man.
An item that may be of interest: Moffatt was not left alone. I refer you to both Grinnell's book and Pessl's.

EDIT. The order of the canoes that day was Moffatt-Lanouette, Pessl-Franck and LeFavour-Grinnell [Pessl, private correspondence].
As evinced by all accounts, the first two dumped. The third got through OK, but Grinnell fell in while trying to hoist a pack into his canoe, leaving only LeFavour dry. Moffatt and Lanouette lost consciousness. Pessl, Franck and LeFavour did what they could to help them.
Grinnell claims to have passed out, then recovered enough to help Lanouette.

Luste said it well: ...one is struck by how close all six came to perishing in the cold water. [Grinnell book, pp 294&295]

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Last edited by Allan Jacobs on December 11th, 2018, 8:42 am, edited 2 times in total.

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PostPosted: December 6th, 2018, 10:15 pm 
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If I am wrong on Moffatt being left alone then those with him are responsible. I have read the books and I shall refresh my memory. One way or another it can be argued Moffatt died needlessly. Either his core temp fell while his companions looked on in ignorance or he was left alone while he died. Now we are into the competency of his fellow travelers. They could have shared their body temperatures, made sure he remained mobile, started a fire. I have done this section of the Dubawnt three times and remember wood, drift wood, dead roots in the area. It was late in the season and cold. You may defend them and I welcome your thoughts. My r3ecollection of Moffett being along came from some source because I have a distinct memory that he was left along for a time while others rescued equipment etc. Perhaps I am wrong. This was a bit snarky: "Perhaps you should read the evidence before expressing an opinion of a dead man." Alan.

I leave my initial post for what it is - right or wrong. I refreshed my memory with a reread of the passages on page 213 (Death on the Barrens) "....Art And Joe had been in the water longest and should have been rescued first, but....." The interested reader can come to his/her own conclusion. The added time lost in rescuing those who "been in the water longest" cannot be dismissed. It was a judgement called and recognized as such .


Last edited by david demello on December 6th, 2018, 11:04 pm, edited 2 times in total.

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PostPosted: December 6th, 2018, 10:30 pm 
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I now repeat my original assertion: "I must take issue with the using of a 50 year old journal as exculpatory evidence for Moffatt. Any reliance upon Tyrrell's description was a flaw. Alan has not disproved my assertion and in fact has found evidence to support it. Moffatt relied upon Tyrell's faulty journal and it proved fatal for Moffett.


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