View topic - The journal of Moffatt-party participant Ed Lanouette

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PostPosted: December 17th, 2018, 11:54 pm 
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J B Tyrrell's maps.
I don't know that anyone will find these of interest, but for sure they will do no good sitting on my computer.
Black Lake to south of Selwyn Lake.
https://barrenlands.library.utoronto.ca ... one-1-1893
Continuation to past Wholdiah/Daly Lake.
https://barrenlands.library.utoronto.ca ... one-2-1893
Continuation to past Boyd Lake.
https://barrenlands.library.utoronto.ca ... one-3-1893
Continuation to the middle of Nicholson Lake.
https://barrenlands.library.utoronto.ca ... one-4-1893
Continuation to the middle of Grant Lake.
https://barrenlands.library.utoronto.ca ... one-5-1893
Continuation to past Aberdeen Lake.
https://barrenlands.library.utoronto.ca ... one-6-1893
Continuation to Baker Lake.
https://barrenlands.library.utoronto.ca ... one-7-1893
Continuations to the mouth of the Churchill River.
https://barrenlands.library.utoronto.ca ... one-8-1893
https://barrenlands.library.utoronto.ca ... one-9-1893
https://barrenlands.library.utoronto.ca ... ne-10-1893
https://barrenlands.library.utoronto.ca ... ne-11-1893
https://barrenlands.library.utoronto.ca ... ne-12-1893
https://barrenlands.library.utoronto.ca ... ne-13-1893
https://barrenlands.library.utoronto.ca ... ne-14-1893

EDIT 1. I see that David beat me to providing the map for Schultz Lake,
EDIT 2. JBT's book provides a harrowing account of especially the trip south from Churchill.

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A literal mind is a little mind. If it's not worth doing to excess, it's not worth doing at all. Good enough isn't.  None are so blind as those who choose not to see. (AJ)



Last edited by Allan Jacobs on December 18th, 2018, 8:40 am, edited 3 times in total.

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PostPosted: December 18th, 2018, 12:24 am 
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maps good! thank you


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PostPosted: December 18th, 2018, 10:56 am 
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Wondering how J B Tyrrell measured elevations in the 1890s.

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PostPosted: December 18th, 2018, 11:03 am 
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As the crow flies distance to nearest island. The question is how long in water and onset of hypothermia.
"How long will it take for hypothermia to kill you?
Even so, hypothermia still takes about 30 minutes to set in, and between an hour and two hours to kill you. Before this, if death does occur, it will probably result from complications due to something called cold shock."

From Mayo Clinic:

Signs and symptoms of hypothermia include:

Shivering
Slurred speech or mumbling
Slow, shallow breathing
Weak pulse
Clumsiness or lack of coordination
Drowsiness or very low energy
Confusion or memory loss
Loss of consciousness

Moffatt was on shore for some time before he complained he could undo his jacket, that would have put him at #5 "Clumsiness or lack of coordination", thus it could be argued that his 'unremediated' condition precipitated his death, thus preventable


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PostPosted: December 18th, 2018, 12:53 pm 
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I accept David's comment as applied to one person suffering from hypothermia.
But only LeFavour of the six did not end up in the water. BTW, I do not believe that GG lost consciousness.
Those were extremely trying circumstances, and so I suggest that second-guessing is inappropriate.
https://grammarist.com/phrase/walk-a-mi ... ses-shoes/
Regards, Allan

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A literal mind is a little mind. If it's not worth doing to excess, it's not worth doing at all. Good enough isn't.  None are so blind as those who choose not to see. (AJ)



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PostPosted: December 18th, 2018, 1:52 pm 
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Alan: "Those were extremely trying circumstances, and so I suggest that second-guessing is inappropriate."

Not second guessing. Five of them managed to get wet, there was chaos. Each had hypothermia symptoms and I have no idea of their training for such conditions. Ignorance could have been a factor. Perhaps someone might read this post and take warning . https://www.mayoclinic.org/diseases-con ... c-20352682


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PostPosted: December 18th, 2018, 2:47 pm 
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I saw no evidence of chaos, after all reached shore, in the writings of the survivors. As best I can tell, they did what they could have done in the circumstances. I await evidence, as opposed to assertions, that they did not do so.

EDIT. I added , after all reached shore, to the first version.

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PostPosted: December 18th, 2018, 8:10 pm 
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Alan: "As best I can tell, they did what they could have done in the circumstances. I await evidence, as opposed to assertions,.."

Analysis is not assertion, it is the use of evidence, knowledge and experience to come to a conclusion. For example your "they did what they could have done in the circumstances." can be tested with the evidence of what happened and how they reacted to it. How much time did Moffatt et al spend in the water gathering belongings that did not secure their survival? Did they have emergency protocols in case of just such a happening? Excerpt from Wednesday, September 14 – Camp #51 (2 miles south of Lady Marjorie Lake)."packs floating all around—I was surprised that they floated. Even Art’s 86-pound camera box was afloat. He was holding onto the canoe with one arm, and clutching my personal pack and the camera box with the other hand—I swam to our yellow food box floating nearby, got it, and brought it back. Then I saw Art’s personal pack floating off and swam a few yards after it, but by now my parka was soaked, so I came back to the canoe, (eventually we “caught up” with Art’s pack and I grabbed it). I told Art in a dry, disinterested voice that we had just pulled a damned-fool stunt and that this would likely be the end for us. He assured me through chattering teeth that this was not the case and that, although it would be hard, we would pull through in good shape..." demonstrates a reckless disregard or ignorance for the circumstances they were in which included subfreezing temperatures. Then we have "Then, to our horror, as George struggled to haul my soaked pack into the canoe, he lost balance and toppled overboard". At what was happening while they were pack grabbing? A deeper hypothermia was setting in as evidenced with this: "My mind became foggy - number 7 on the hypothermia list. followed by this "My mind became foggy—I remember Pete shouting to me to grab ahold of his canoe—this I did, so did Art. But I was holding both Art’s and my personal packs—and, unknown to me, my legs were entangled with the bowline from our canoe. George and Pete had to drag Art and me plus the packs and the gray canoe to shore—we seemed unable to move, although George and Pete were both paddling like fiends. Pete then yelled to me to let go of the canoe. I thought he meant his canoe, so I told him to go to hell." You assertion that "they did what they could have done in the circumstances" does not pass my judgement. They did much that was not in support of your "they did what they could have done in the circumstances"


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PostPosted: December 20th, 2018, 1:23 pm 
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In his book "Death on the Barrens" on page 207 we have the author Grinnell quoting from Joe Lanouette's journal:

"Sept 14:................................
In a few minutes we hears and saw rapids on the horizon....

At the top of the rapids looked as though they would be easy going, a few small waves, rocks - nothing serious. We did not even haul over to shore to have a look, as we usually did. "

Moffatt and Lanouette were in the lead boat and Moffatt was the leader. What information was Moffatt relying on that made him make such a decision. They heard and saw rapids on the horizon, down river and ignored that evidence because of some reason.

For a possible finger post I quote Alan Jacobs: "Moffatt had used JBT's rapids advice for all of July, all of August and two weeks in September.
Over those 11 weeks, surely he would have noticed significant differences between JBT's descriptions and his experiences, and so he would not have trusted them in the afternoon of 14 September.

EDIT.
Before then, the Moffatt party had experienced not one dump, not one pin and but one swamp; indeed, the only dumps of the entire trip occurred then.
Again, the external URL of my Moffatt blog. http://defence-arthurmoffatt.ca/2017/09/08/main-text/


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PostPosted: December 20th, 2018, 7:22 pm 
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Gosh, this is the longest exchange between primarily two people I've ever seen on the internet, and, it's civil. For that reason alone, I'm glad I saw it. But this story too is quite something, had never heard of it before. Like all good literature it seems to have a cast of characters, motivations, and actions that allow for lengthy introspection. I've not read anything except now this thread and this journal, and on that basis I'm voting nay. This Ed character was a young guy, seemingly open-minded and amiable, but for some reason he didn't click with Moffat. The reasons given in the journal are numerous, and to me they don't quite add up to good leadership. For example, when was the last time someone didn't take a radio just because some desk-bound 'authorities' told them not too?? But I am impressed with the dedication to the film-making, continuing to get material long past the point where I would have chucked the 86 pound load. Perhaps Moffatt should have been a film-maker on somebody else's expedition? On the matter of the portage, I like the analogy that was mentioned once or twice in the journal. Yes, it would have burned far more energy than paddling, but beyond the psychology of the decision it was also a way to stay warm in the late season. It makes sense, if they had the food to supply that energy. From the evidence, it seems that they did. Though I'm not seeing much evidence of fat that they had available to consume, just protein.


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PostPosted: December 21st, 2018, 5:56 am 
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jbishop2112: "Though I'm not seeing much evidence of fat that they had available to consume, just protein." Caribou at this time of year have lots of fat. In readiness for winter.

Some animals stay in one area their entire life. Others, like caribou, migrate on long journeys. Caribou migrate between summer and winter ranges. Their summer range provides nutritious food that helps the new calves and the other caribou grow healthy and fat before winter. But the summer range is a harsh and windy place during winter, so the caribou move to a winter range where conditions (weather, food, snow cover) are more agreeable.

https://www.fws.gov/refuge/arctic/carcon.html

On the fuel issue. "Beverly Lake (Inuktitut: Tipjalik, "it has driftwood") is a lake in the Kivalliq Region, Nunavut, Canada."


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PostPosted: December 21st, 2018, 7:48 pm 
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OK good point, I'd assumed those beasts were mostly muscle. Just getting to that link for the Tyrrell journal, and it looks like it's going to be a great read. Can't believe I didn't know about any of this stuff.


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PostPosted: December 24th, 2018, 12:03 pm 
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An email message just received from Ed Lanouette, Moffatt's bowperson.


Hi Allan..... just a few lines to help clarify some of the online questions.
First a correction: it was Peter Franke, not Bruce LeFavour, who remained relatively dry after the accident. Peter was in the red canoe with george Grinnell. Art and I, in the gray canoe , went belly up first; then came Skip Pessl and Bruce in the green canoe that also turned turtle.
Art and I were in an eddy maybe a hundred yards or so from shore. But Pessl and LeFavour were drifting away, so , after dumping out water in their canoe, Peter and George went after them. After dragging LeFavour and Pessl ashore, Pete and George came for us. But George fell overboard trying to haul in my heavy pack. He made several attempts to haul himself aboard the red canoe, almost swamping it in the process. George then had to be hauled to shore, the canoe had to be emptied and by the time Art and I were rescued , I think we were in the water for the better part of an hour. Both Art and I did little but hang on to our canoe and grab whatever equipment floated by.
On land , I was unconscious for a couple of hours; Art died despite Skip's best efforts to resuscitate him.
As to our eight -mile portage over the Marjorie hills to lake Aberdeen, we decided we would save time and miles of river travel, especially now that much of our food was gone.I made three back -and -forth trips between Marjorie and Aberdeen -some 24 miles- and others may have as well. The land was relatively smooth and dry. This was no walk in the park, but without rocks and brush, we made good time over the mossy surface.
I don't know if this clarifies anything, Allan, but I hope it puts to rest some of David Demello's online questions.
I enjoyed reading the comments and hope all is well with you.
Regards, Ed(Joe)

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A literal mind is a little mind. If it's not worth doing to excess, it's not worth doing at all. Good enough isn't.  None are so blind as those who choose not to see. (AJ)



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PostPosted: December 24th, 2018, 2:08 pm 
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"I made three back -and -forth trips between Marjorie and Aberdeen -some 24 miles- and others may have as well."

3 back and forth would require 5 trips over same ground. The distance was between 7 and 8 miles. (extracted from the notes) thus requiring a distance of 35 to 40 miles. I see no way around that.

"I think we were in the water for the better part of an hour." That is a lot of time immersed in cold water.

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PostPosted: December 25th, 2018, 6:29 am 
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Friday, September 16 – Camp #52 (Southern end Lady Marjorie Lake).
FTA: .....................................................
At a rest stop on a point of land, Pete caught another good-sized fish—the rest of us collected enough driftwood scraps to fill a duffle bag.
We set up camp around 5 o’clock and, after a tasty glop thickened with oats, we sacked out with the sun. Bruce tented with me and the rest went to Skip’s. Bruce’s bag was now pretty well dried out so he used it. We both slept soundly all night.

Jacobs comment. And so ends Lanouette’s journal.


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