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 Post subject: Primaloft Mitt Liners
PostPosted: October 9th, 2004, 8:22 pm 
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Joined: August 19th, 2001, 7:00 pm
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Location: Thunder Bay, Ontario Canada
I have beautiful full leather gauntlet mitts, originally designed for snowmobilers. However they are just perfect for traditional winter camping. Pliable at -40. No worries with hot surfaces or sparks. They have an adjustable wrist cinch, and have wide enough openings to be no hassle for hand and thick parka sleeve entry. They are soft suede on the back for rubbing a dripping nose. I thought the high tech "Primaloft" liners in them would be the ultimate. But I was wrong.

The Primaloft is essentially very soft foam with a micro fleece lining either side. They are very warm as long as you don’t compress the insulation. Of course when hauling sled with hands wrapped around the ropes or using ski poles, the foam insulation is compressed. Last winter at only -25 and windy, my hands got extremely cold while using ski poles, until I had to put on my alternate hand gear. This should not have happened. It’s time to retrofit these with wool liners. Thick springy wool does not compress easy, and is the insulation of choice for socks and mitts.

I just bought some thick 100% pure wool melton material, like blanket wool, at the fabric store for amazingly cheap. I hope to make a pattern, and get a local sewer to make me a double liner mitt for the gauntlets. A heads up on Primaloft for hand gear. It’s good for sleeping bags and things like that that don't get compressed But sometimes the modern stuff is not designed for winter camping applications.


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PostPosted: October 10th, 2004, 6:58 am 
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Joined: May 24th, 2003, 8:38 am
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Location: St. Thomas, Ontario
Interesting. Who have given that consideration? Thanks for the heads up.
I'm a big fan of Primaloft and have been thinking of adding a pair of ID Hot Socks to my gear.
Melton wool has been around a long time. Naval Peacoats and Civil War uniforms are / were made from it - that's gotta tell ya sumthin'. I'd like to find a pair of military pants. I actually had a coat made for my dog using Melton Wool. :roll: Although he has never told me, I'm sure he is warm in it.
I use these as liners in my gauntlets:
http://www.rei.com/product/162.htm?vcat=REI_SSHP_MENS_CLOTHING_TOC
http://www.mec.ca/Products/product_detail.jsp?FOLDER%3C%3Efolder_id=675235&PRODUCT%3C%3Eprd_id=17757&bmUID=1097407748189
http://www.mec.ca/Products/product_detail.jsp?FOLDER%3C%3Efolder_id=675235&PRODUCT%3C%3Eprd_id=11875&bmUID=1097408041168
My fave is the Gore Windstopper gloves. I also have a touque made of the same material. Have you tried any of the Windstopper / Windbloc fabrics?
BTW, how did you make out with your Zippo. I was looking at my warranty card and they are gauranteed for life. I'l send you the address if you need it.


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PostPosted: October 10th, 2004, 9:30 am 
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Location: Thunder Bay, Ontario Canada
Hi Rick,

I use the MEC regular fleece gloves with the flared wrist opening, as liners for my leather work gloves. They look just like the windblocs. They work great. They and the leather get soaked during the day with the hard work of hauling sled, or cross country skiing. But they dry very well. They are thick enough that they don't loose much performance by compression. I buy large full leather work gloves and cut out the cheap liners they have, and use the MEC liner gloves.

I have the same MEC double 300 fleece mitts too. The only problem with them is that they don't have the big gauntlet sleeve to fit into my leather gauntlet mitts. Without the long extension, the mitt liners will collapse and block my hand as I shove it in. I use them instead in my leather "chopper" mitts, which are short length. They are my alternate for the gauntlets, and work great. Less protection for the wrist though. I want to retrofit the gauntlets because they are the ultimate cold weather mitt. That's why I am going the route of the home made gauntlet liners. At very cold temps, the hands go in and out of the mitts fast, many times per day, and one cannot afford to be fumbling with a collapsed mitt liner.

All the traditional woodland peoples used gauntlets, as do Inuit. Must be something right in the design. Many people here have the traditional moose hide gauntlets, sometimes embroidered with beadwork, and trimmed with beaver fur. They are lined with blanket wool. I would love to have a pair of those, but they are very expensive at stores. You have to find an Anishnabe craftsperson to make them for you wholesale, and I don't have the contacts. The ones I have seen don't have the adjustable wrist cinch, so I would have to customiize them with a cinch strap.

I have not tried windbloc fleece. I get very hot when working (snow shoeing, skiing, hauling sled, wood gathering), even at very cold temps, so I want full moisture transport. You know its working when you see the frost forming on the outside of your fleece and toque. I don't mind some wind getting through, as I theorize it takes more of the moisture away. I have a cotton anorak shell for wind if necessary.

I find the abrasion on gloves and mitts is so intense, that I use leather on the outside. Plus the sticks, needles and debris will coat naked fleece. I can't stand that! The sparks from the fire get them too, not to mention grabbing a hot pot handle from the fire or woodstove. Therefore, I figured I did not need the windbloc on the inside. Its a system that seems to work for me.

The Zippo was as 3/4 size, which is not their common model. So perhaps the tolerance limits on those are not as good as the full size models. For the price, I don't have the energy for going after the warranty refund, but thanks for the offer of the warranty card. I might invest in the full size lighter and try once again.


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PostPosted: October 10th, 2004, 3:28 pm 
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O.K., so bear with me on this. You want a liner that extends up your sleeve / arm, like your gauntlet? If so, that makes good sense. I'm forever putting a mitt on and then the big leather mitt. You want to pull them on and off together?

There are many situations, however, when I pull the gauntlet off, leaving the glove on, to better handle something - cup of coffee, zip open the tent, pull little ricky out, etc.


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PostPosted: October 10th, 2004, 9:42 pm 
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Joined: March 5th, 2004, 7:59 pm
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Location: Colorado
I bought myself a pair of Ortovox [German made] wool mitts that are what you would call gauntlet length. I had them for a few years and always found them a pain with the way they got shoved off my hands if not layered right with the sleeves of my coats.
Then last season I figured out that if I rolled or folded the long wrists down they worked great. The double layer in the wrist area made them tighter on my wrists so they didn't want to slide off and with them being shorter they just butted up to my sleeve.
I use them inside a pair of OR overmitts that are not he gauntlet length but long enough to sinch up over my coat sleeves. I can pull them off and put them back on as a unit or individually.
The trouble is that they are very thick and heavy so that they are kind of stiff. I think it's that preshrunk wool stuff. They nit the mitts and then shock the wool so they shrink making the nitting very tight. Because of this stiffness, I don't think they would handle "little ricky" very wel and might even shock the wool to much.

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PostPosted: October 22nd, 2004, 9:07 am 
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Joined: June 20th, 2001, 7:00 pm
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HOOP_ wrote:
. I thought the high tech "Primaloft" liners in them would be the ultimate. But I was wrong.
The Primaloft is essentially very soft foam with a micro fleece lining either side. They are very warm as long as you don’t compress the insulation. Of course when hauling sled with hands wrapped around the ropes or using ski poles, the foam insulation is compressed. Last winter at only -25 and windy, my hands got extremely cold while using ski poles, until I had to put on my alternate hand gear. .

Hoop, Primaloft is not a foam with fleece lining on each side. Its a synthetic fiber very much like down with many of the same limitations as down. Either your gloves were not made with a Primaloft liner or it was elsewhere. You are quite right that it is not compressible. Like down, Primaloft loses its insulating value when compressed, so its very bad for footwear and sometimes handwear as you have found out!
For feet, Thinsulate, or good old wool liners are the best and for hands, wool is great..


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PostPosted: October 23rd, 2004, 1:35 pm 
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Location: Thunder Bay, Ontario Canada
Hi Kim,

You are right about the microfiber structure. My eyes are getting older and I thought it was foam. Upon closer look, squinting real hard, I was able to focus. New eyeglass prescription time soon.

They are in fact Primaloft, and through field testing, just not suitable for a working mitt liner. I am planning on thick wool liner replacements, but of course one cannot just go and buy gauntlet mitt liners of wool. "They" don't make them. I will have to get them custom made. To make my own pattern, I used the liner mitts themselves and traced them on some wrapping paper, plus some help from the Conover's book which has some clothing patterns. Now I have to find a sewer to make them. I unfortunately have no skill in sewing.


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