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 Post subject: Interior Winter Camping
PostPosted: August 2nd, 2004, 1:41 pm 
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Location: Waterdown
Hi all. I was wondering if anyone here could offer some advice on interior winter camping in Algonquin Park? Im looking for a place that is somewhere off Hiway 60, and that is not too far of a snowshoe (ie 1 hour or less).

I was thinking maybe starting off at Mew Lake and heading along the trail that leads towards Rock Lake, but am looking for suggestions.

Can anyone suggest any spots that would fit the above criteria?

Thanks in advance!

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PostPosted: October 17th, 2004, 7:06 am 
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Location: London
There are sites on Drummer Lake and on the Snowshoe route up to Linda Lake. If you are hot camping many of the sites already have poles cut. It will take a bit of searching to find the sites though.


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PostPosted: October 17th, 2004, 5:34 pm 
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Location: Toronto, Ontario Canada
On the Park's East Side (near the town of Pembroke), the Barron Canyon Road is ploughed in winter and available for day trips and for backcountry winter camping.

Permits are available at a self-serve fee station at the Sand Lake Gate. The Achray Campground is closed, however, and the Achray Road is gated one kilometre from the campground. During the winter, the five-kilometre-long Achray Road is not ploughed.


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PostPosted: October 17th, 2004, 5:58 pm 
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Location: Waterdown
Thanks for the reply guys...Im also considering Killarney. I was there a few winters back when the OPSEU strike was on and it was completely empty......We were the only ones there...

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PostPosted: October 17th, 2004, 7:09 pm 
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Joined: January 10th, 2002, 7:00 pm
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Location: Thornton, Ontario Canada
Are you allowed to cut poles down for your hot tent in Algonquin Park for interior camping ?¿? I wouldn't think so but where would you get your firewood other than cutting down some dead tree near a swamp ? It's not like you can find it on the ground. Anyone with more info please let me know.


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PostPosted: October 17th, 2004, 9:39 pm 
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Location: Barrie, Ontario Canada
Yes, Cliff. It isn't generally publicised, but they don't worry about it too much. Craig MacDonald and Bob Davis and others have been working out a system of winter trails, and they have tent poles cached here and there. I was in there 2 years ago.

The Park would probably rather you not go at all in winter because they're scared of people falling through the ice (ever since it happened to their trail-grader -- one drowned -- a few years ago), but they don't forbid it.

So far I don't think it's been a problem because the winter campsites don't impinge on the summer ones. Different priorities and all that.

Lots of forbidding warnings, but no hard rules.

Three times in recent years I've been in there in winter and it rained every time. (this at the end of Feb). Frankly if I was planning a winter camp I'd check the 5-day forecast before going in. Algonquin's not all that far north.


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PostPosted: October 18th, 2004, 8:59 am 
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I winter camp in Algonquin every winter and have a couple of comments.

- yes the end of February is pushing so keep an eye on the weather and stay off the ice. I make my plans for mid-January to mid-February.

- Make sure you camp at least 100 feet from an existing trail. Same goes for cutting your firewood. Park Rules.

- There is also a prohibition against using existing campsites for winter camping. It doesn't make any sense to me. Their reasoning is that winter campers might damage the area with axes and excrement.

- You can't go on existing trails that are in use - snowshoes or toboggans
on a ski trail for example. There are lots and lots of unused roads, however, that are perfect for winter camping and exploring.

- Park Rules state that individuals can NOT cut down trees. Your asking for trouble if you do. I had a warden show up on one of my camps and that was the first thing looked for. The thousands of trees cut by loggers is by written arrangement and the trees Mr. McDonald cuts down is also by explicit permission. There is a well-earned level of trust between Mr. McDonald and the Park management that doesn't apply to the average person. He is adding to the Park by building winter camping trails in select designated areas. So don't try to go on the old railway (new bicycle) trail between Mew and Rock and start cutting trees.

Do a search on posts by Dave Hadfield as he has some real good ideas on keeping the amount of poles to a minimum.
I have two hot tents - one 7x9 heavy duty canvas and one 10x10 Egyptian cotton pyramid. Neither use cut poles. I use about 3 pounds of aluminum tubing left over from family-sized tents that rotted away. Don't forget the snow in Algonquin isn't anywhere near as deep as the near-North. I sometimes use a rope strung between a couple of trees instead of a main pole. If you want to cut poles, you'll have to spent the extra time and money and head somewhere where there is crown land.
There is lots of downed timber perfect to cutting into firewood so there is no need to cut down existing dead timber. As well, many species depend on dead standing timber for food (bugs) and nesting. The snow isn't all that deep that downed timber is buried and will be sufficiently off the ground so that is isn't rotten.

Have fun and don't forget it's all learning curve.
cheers, Ted


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PostPosted: October 18th, 2004, 9:49 am 
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Joined: April 18th, 2002, 7:00 pm
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Location: Beamsville, Ontario Canada
Like Steve, I'm also considering my first winter camping trip in AP. Ted, you made some good points.

With everything said, I have several questions....
- hot-tenting; i managed to dig out an old canvas tent that uses inverted u-shaped alum tubes (not really sure how to describe them). will this suffice for hot-tenting? i know i have to cut out a hole for the stove pipe/chimney but what other modifications need to be done to make this tent "hot-tent"-worthy?
- wood stove; just came back from LeBaron over the wknd and found several designs that are VERY affordable. I know I posted a while back regarding possibly making my own but I may delay that until I'm sure I know what I want. With regards to the different desings, the variation was mostly with where the door was. One was top-loading and the other were on the side. Though it makes more practical sense to having the door on the side, what are some disadvantages of a top loading one (which is their cheaper stove = $64).
- no cutting trees as pointed by Ted - doesn't this make the firewood gathering a little difficult. I would think that the best and driest stuff to burn is comprised of the dead standing timbers and not the stuff on the ground.

With AP imposing some of the mentioned rules when winter-camping, are there a lot of crown land areas where one can winter camp with a bit more freedom. I've been considering the Frost center while still accessible. Looking to incorporate a bit of ice-fishing with some winter camping.

-J


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PostPosted: October 18th, 2004, 10:01 am 
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Location: Scarbados, Ontario Canada
TripperTed wrote:
- There is also a prohibition against using existing campsites for winter camping. It doesn't make any sense to me. Their reasoning is that winter campers might damage the area with axes and excrement.


I'd trust them on this one; they have had enough experience to set this specific rule. I would expect winter campers - and there will be a fair share of beginners amongst them - to make fire outside the fire place, poop in the wrong place and leave used Tpaper behind, and be more stress on the site than the summer camper because of the greater need for firewood.

Also, summer sites may have spectacular views and other advantages, but they are typically short of good firewood and thus (generally) a poor choice for the winter camper.


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PostPosted: October 18th, 2004, 10:02 am 
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A good destination might be Provoking Lake and being on the Highlands backpacking trail there may be some snow shoe trails to get on without having to break trail.

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PostPosted: October 18th, 2004, 10:36 am 
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Location: Brampton, Ontario Canada
I went on my first winter trip last year and did the Highland Trail in AP. The trail was broken so only had to backpack with my boots. We camped about one hour in near a river (forget the name) but had a great time.


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PostPosted: October 18th, 2004, 11:01 am 
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I'll leave your tent questions to experts like Dave Hadfield.

One of the primary purposes of an indoor stove is for cooking. Top loading would be a pain if not down-right impossible. The LeBaron front loader is a bit big but doable. At 12x12x24 you'll have to work at not overheating your tent. It also weighs about 25 pounds if you include the telescoping pipe.
I have used their front-loader for the last two years in a 7x9 tent and a 10x10 tent and am now in the process of making a "Hadfield" stove at 10x10x20 out of lighter steel.

On firewood in AP, there are lots of downed trees that aren't lying directly on the ground and rotted. Trees that have fallen over against other trees, trees that are held off the ground by limbs, etc. All I know is that I haven't had to cut standing trees yet and it is illegal.

Yep, I guess I see the point on existing campsites but I have always thought that if everyone used existing camps, there would be less impact as the open ground is already there, the thunder box is already there and so is the firepit.

cheers, Ted


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PostPosted: October 18th, 2004, 11:20 am 
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Location: Beamsville, Ontario Canada
this brings me to my next question.... do you snowshow or ski?

i have been on the western upland trail in the winter where we did a day trip to "try out" dragging a loaded tobaggan. that worked fine when you were on FLAT packed trails. when you hit slopes, it tended to run away on you or even chase you down. better hope you ski faster :lol:

we also have tried skiing on fresh snow. though that worked not too badly, it was still a struggle when you hit any major slopes (up or down). mind you, we again had a toboggan which had a tendency to "stick" and tip over on it's side. i think sleds would work better (tub-style plastic type).

since we don't have snowshoes, and are more favouring of skiis (20+yr olds XC skiis) how does this limit our route selection? if it is that much better "snowshoeing", then we might just bite the bullet and invest in a decent pair.

Jake


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PostPosted: October 18th, 2004, 12:00 pm 
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Jake
Quote:
do you snowshow or ski?

The short answer is yes.

By skis if you mean track-set 55mm skis and shoes then no. If you mean backcountry shoes and skis over 100mm then yes. For had pack snow or over ice (lakes, rivers) skis are great. For new deep snow I find snowshoes are the best. You'll also need snowshoes around the camp. (Ever tried to cut firewood with skis on?) If you have to invest in one pair if snowshoes, then get a pair of traditionals and invest/build a good harness for them.
I take both backcountry skis and snowshoes and I'm back and forth as needed.

As for toboggans over-running your skis, use a length of pvc pipe over your rope harness or have your buddy roped behind and act as a brake. If your toboggan is tipping over you've piled it tooo high and need a longer one. Even two smaller sleds one tied behind the other is better than one piled too high.

Ted


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 Post subject:
PostPosted: October 18th, 2004, 5:02 pm 
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Joined: April 16th, 2003, 1:50 pm
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Location: Toronto
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- Park Rules state that individuals can NOT cut down trees. Your asking for trouble if you do. I had a warden show up on one of my camps and that was the first thing looked for. The thousands of trees cut by loggers is by written arrangement


Interesting. I really had no idea about this although I have never specifically asked, just assumed it was not a problem. Is it just me or is it not widely known? Certainly I got a lot of my firewood habits from someone who lived and worked in the park for several years, but if this is the rule I'll have to reprogram a bit. Still, it won't be easy to pass up the best wood on a night in the -25 to -30 range.


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