View topic - Sled (Modifications)

It is currently March 18th, 2024, 10:22 pm

All times are UTC - 5 hours





Post new topic Reply to topic  [ 11 posts ] 
Author Message
 Post subject: Sled (Modifications)
PostPosted: August 24th, 2004, 11:44 am 
Offline

Joined: September 12th, 2002, 7:00 pm
Posts: 236
Location: San Antonio, Texas
Dave (Hadfield)....I've got to hand it to you with regard to that web link you've provided for the building of a homemade sled:

http://www.hadfield.ca/Gear/tobaggan.html

It's just the type of thing I can see myself building.

My first step, (probably next week), will be to go rummaging for some used skis.

As I've been thinking about how you describe the building of this...a couple things have come to mind that I wanted to share. At first they seem unrelated, but maybe that's not the case.

Who's ever reading this...just keep in mind that I'm writing this from the perspective of not having pulled a winter sled before....(and the inherent obstacles that one encounters). Still, I think it's worth throwing the thought out there.

Anyways....two areas have struck me:

a) Your description of how you would build the risers that get fastened to the skis:

Use fibreglass skis – they’re lighter than steel. Make the riser above them out of a spruce 2x4. This is light and strong. Run it full length and round up the front so that the ski-tip is supported – otherwise it’ll break off someday. You can lighten the 2x4 by routing out some of the wood to shape it into an “I” beam. (See photo.) I did this on a table saw using a dado blade. A router would work. It’s not essential, but weight counts.

b) And then someone's comment in a previous thread, (I can't find the actual posting now), where they said something like...."now if I could just keep the sled from tipping".

Anyways....I'll try and keep this short.

My immediate problem with cutting down the weight on the risers by routing them into "I" beams as you describe above...is that I don't have a dado blade or router. It's not that big a problem, I could easily take it to a friend who does...but then I thought of drilling a series of perforating holes in the riser using a paddle bit to achieve the same result, (cutting down on weight):

Image

This approach would also allow me the luxury of keeping the project within my shop...and not having to "explain" the use of the piece of wood....as is always obligatory with the sharing of tools... :o

So, hypothetically, I've got these perforated holes now...and they're also creating a means by which to run something perpendicular to the length of the sled...and I thought of canoe outriggers as our commonplace in Hawaii and Australia and the stability they provide:

Image

So I'm thinking now that possibly some 1" electrical conduit could be run thru the perforated holes...to provide for outrigger stabilizers...

Some type of keyclamp would be needed at each end...like you find on dumbbell sets.

And maybe higher risers would be better....2 x 6's instead of 2 x 4's.

Sure there's the susceptibility to entanglement of the "outrigger" on deadfall.

But thought my 2 cents might add something here.

?

-Mike
As the old adage goes....wider is better.


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject:
PostPosted: August 24th, 2004, 12:20 pm 
Offline
User avatar

Joined: July 15th, 2002, 7:00 pm
Posts: 1399
Location: Big Flats, New York USA
I was the one that mentioned the sled tipping over. My problem is that I tend to be cheap and lazy, I've been trying to get a plastic torpedo sled to work. My uses for a sled vary from the Canadian bush to the Adirondack Mountains. For mountains, weight is a much larger concern. I probably should have two sleds, but I'm also stubborn and want to get one sled to work. On the sled I have the runners are well within the side of the sled. The main problem is when the sled tracks off the broken trail, thus acquiring a large tilt with way too little base width. I've noticed the ski type sleds don't have near the problem of tipping that I have. I keep looking for a better plastic sled, I just may break down and buy one of the good ones I see occasionally which are made for hauling gear and firewood (although $60us is a lot of money for a cheapskate so I'll probably never do it :wink: ).

I think outriggers would be a nightmare in the bush. Not only would they get ensnared, they would also be outside the broken trail thus drastically increasing pulling resistance. Dave has mentioned numerous times that to increase stability, make the sled longer.

Tony


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject:
PostPosted: August 24th, 2004, 12:23 pm 
Offline

Joined: October 1st, 2002, 7:00 pm
Posts: 529
Location: Sechelt, BC
Mike I was writing this up and noticed that you had posted just ahead of me. Therefore I offer these tips for what they are worth.

After making 3 different sleds I can offer a few design ideas. On my last sled I based the width of my sled on the length of my stove or close to it. This was mostly due to the fact that I could best utilize space. It seems that 20" is just about right and if I'm not mistaken Dave Hadfield makes his around this width. Do not go too wide or you will be constantly snagging it on trees, brush or the sides of the trail. I also choose a length of 7 ft, which again seemed to be about right. One consideration you must think about is how you are going to transport it. Because I have a van I didn't have to worry too much. The 7' was going to hang outside the rear door anyway, but we managed to put 3 sleds in on the last gathering. If you only have a car then you may have to rethink the design. Perhaps, as Dave said in an earlier post, you may want to have 2 smaller sleds that can be hitched together. This would definitely solve 2 problems, transportation and hauling up steep grades.
It also a good idea to chamfer off the front corners of the deck. It just eliminates a place for the sled to hang-up. For stability, keep the stance of the skis as wide as possible without going wider than the deck.
For the added convenience add a tank or as some call, a bucket. This can be a large rectangular bag made of canvas, nylon or woven plastic tarps. On our last sled I used a blue plastic tarp that was cut and sewn to be about 20” x 20” x 7 ft long with a big overhanging flap. This is then screwed directly to the deck in about 6 places. Use some large washers or such so as not to tear the material.
I would also highly recommend Dave’s idea for quick lacing, this just made it too easy for lashing the load down.
Lastly, try to keep the weight down as much as possible. When you are building the sled, you will naturally keep adding tiny improvements, which may seem insignificant at the time, but in the end the weight has increased more than you were expecting. My sled ended up being just slightly over 30 lbs and I was shooting for roughly 25 lbs.
We found that the two of us could, with some creative packing, get all our gear on this one sled and with the addition of the push bar was easy for the two of us to haul.

Dan


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject:
PostPosted: August 24th, 2004, 1:09 pm 
Offline

Joined: September 12th, 2002, 7:00 pm
Posts: 236
Location: San Antonio, Texas
Hi Tony....

Thanks for the "heads-up".

While I haven't totally nixed the idea of outriggers....getting closer.

If anything, it might just be an accessory that I add-on at different pts on the trail.

Like when I'm soloing and doing a steep ascent...and "outrig" it....so it doesn't tip while I'm hauling from the top of the slope.

Still may prove futile....just collecting thoughts for now.

BTW, heading to Long Pond in a few weeks. Been 2 years since I've been in the area.

Thanks again,
-Mike


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject:
PostPosted: August 24th, 2004, 1:15 pm 
Offline

Joined: September 12th, 2002, 7:00 pm
Posts: 236
Location: San Antonio, Texas
Dan,

Some very good points....thank you.

I had originally thought of 24" for the wood stove's length.

Just put a call into the guy who's fabricating it for me....(I might wanna trim that length down, based on what you've said).

In any event, that reasoning that stove is "packed" with it's length going the width of the sled....sounds like a very efficient use of space.

Hadn't thought about how the sled length relates to transport within my van.

I've got to see what workable space I've got there...otherwise it's gonna have to go on the roof.

Regarding some of your other comments....some of that stuff is a little fuzzy in interpreting....(like that thing at the bow).

If you don't mind....I'd like to get some more details from you on this...once I've had a chance to go thru it some more.

Thanks Dan,
-Mike


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject:
PostPosted: August 24th, 2004, 1:44 pm 
Offline

Joined: April 16th, 2003, 1:50 pm
Posts: 386
Location: Toronto
If you're planning on soloing, you'll be breaking your own trail; might want to think about a flat toboggan for the flotation... depends on snow conditions where you'll be travelling of course, and maybe you won't have much powder to deal with. Anyway, a nice feature of the (polyethylene) toboggan is rolling it up and getting inside your car ( I have a 10 foot toboggan which fits inside my VW hatchback). Packing the toboggan in the car can be done by curving it around your gear; it literally takes no extra space that way.


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject:
PostPosted: August 24th, 2004, 2:16 pm 
Offline

Joined: September 12th, 2002, 7:00 pm
Posts: 236
Location: San Antonio, Texas
But then that flotation means more friction?

Are you just talking about a thin rollable piece of plastic, (type), sled?

That seems kind of flimsy.

I kinda like that Dave Hadfield's design has some "weightiness" to it, and the (2) skis providing tracking that would seem to keep things in line.

Still, I see what you mean by use on powder and it's portability.

If I go with Dave's design....for the plywood floor I'm thinking about boring out a series of 4" holes....( I have a 4" hole drill)...this will take some more weight out.

Actually, I now see that Dave recommends using only 3/8" plywood to give it some flex....so 4" holes in this would probably not be good....

It may just be that the thing has gotta go on my van's roof....unloaded.

My driving distance is too far (+5 hours), to keep the back hatch open.

I've gotta see though....I might be able to get it to fit....(the rear bed seating just snaps out).

-Mike


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject:
PostPosted: August 24th, 2004, 8:57 pm 
Offline

Joined: June 20th, 2001, 7:00 pm
Posts: 1483
Tonycc wrote:
I was the one that mentioned the sled tipping over. My problem is that I tend to be cheap and lazy, I've been trying to get a plastic torpedo sled to work.

I used a plastic torpedo sled for a few years, then switched to a bigger plastic sled. It's cheap & works fine for me, but would be totally inadequate for a hot tenter.
If I decide to bring more stuff, I'll simply tow 2 plastic sleds.


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject:
PostPosted: August 24th, 2004, 9:15 pm 
Offline
User avatar

Joined: June 20th, 2001, 7:00 pm
Posts: 1777
Location: London, Ontario CANADA
One thing about those holes is that your snow conditions may be the kind that will freeze into them and then your weight will increase just because of the snow stuck in the holes of the runners.

_________________

[color=green]For love of the wilderness, A journey begins...[/color] [color=brown][b][Nature's Calling...] So get OFF(!) THAT(!!) THUNDERBOX !!![/b][/color]




Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject:
PostPosted: August 25th, 2004, 2:16 am 
Offline

Joined: September 12th, 2002, 7:00 pm
Posts: 236
Location: San Antonio, Texas
Thank for the input Georgi...

Also, your mention about the kerosene low flashpoint....the other day.

Later,
-Mike


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject:
PostPosted: August 25th, 2004, 11:50 am 
Offline
User avatar

Joined: June 20th, 2001, 7:00 pm
Posts: 1777
Location: London, Ontario CANADA
oops, I just seen where you might go to the sled floor with holes......just think of all that compressed snow stuffing itself into your tank! ( or bucket )

You might have to chip out your gear from the compressed ice cube you make in your travel!

I used the plastic H2O toboggan for my first and second trip and it proved alright when traveling in the woods with lots of ups and downs.

Make sure you tie down your gear! Things have a tendency of slipping out as your sleigh crests the hills ( the taller the hill, the more likely you'll watch your olive barrel high tail it back down the hill )

I've seen it before!


:D

On a side note, 'Sleigh Beast' has donated itself to the garage to be a permanent bench. At 46 Lbs I knew I had to at least try to lighten the sleigh weight , which means to start all over again. I did keep the front pull system and a small square fo the 1/2" russian (strong like Bull!) plywood
so the front section will have good strength it case Sleigh Beast Light ( or 2!) gets stuck in some serious snow...

Cheers,

_________________

[color=green]For love of the wilderness, A journey begins...[/color] [color=brown][b][Nature's Calling...] So get OFF(!) THAT(!!) THUNDERBOX !!![/b][/color]




Top
 Profile  
 
Display posts from previous:  Sort by  
Post new topic Reply to topic  [ 11 posts ] 

All times are UTC - 5 hours


Who is online

Users browsing this forum: No registered users and 3 guests


You cannot post new topics in this forum
You cannot reply to topics in this forum
You cannot edit your posts in this forum
You cannot delete your posts in this forum
You cannot post attachments in this forum

Search for:
Jump to:  
Powered by phpBB® Forum Software © phpBB Group