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 Post subject: Elephant in the Room
PostPosted: June 2nd, 2017, 7:10 am 
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Elephant in the room is an English-language metaphorical idiom for an obvious problem or risk no one wants to discuss, or a condition of groupthink no one wants to challenge.
I know that it is difficult for us to have a discussion about the current situation in the US without it becoming political but I think that we should try.
Would someone living in the US please try to explain to the rest of us, how the US governing system is really working "to make America great again". This should be done in a non-political manner if at all possible.


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 Post subject: Re: Elephant in the Room
PostPosted: June 2nd, 2017, 8:06 am 
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Why is it an elephant in the room on a canoeing website? It hasn't impacted my canoeing one bit.


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 Post subject: Re: Elephant in the Room
PostPosted: June 2nd, 2017, 8:33 am 
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How long does it take to dehydrate a whole elephant?? :D

We were canoeing this week in algon. We didn't know what T had been up to while we were gone but we knew he hadn't pushed the button on nuclear warheads!!

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 Post subject: Re: Elephant in the Room
PostPosted: June 2nd, 2017, 9:19 am 
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Yes, there are elephants in our rooms. At least in the "paddling rooms" I'm sitting in. Remaining optimistic about the future of the environment necessitates some interesting mental gymnastics. Denial of the existence of major threats to planetary life is one way of remaining upbeat. "Don't worry, be happy" is a viable alternative to some and is probably, viewed from an evolutionary perspective, conducive to increased longevity. We can still comfortably indulge in our love of paddling, especially if we don't pay too much attention to what that paddling environment will look like to our children and grandchildren. Paddling is many things to me, one of which is an attempt at escape from cares and worries. Unfortunately, I'm finding it hasn't been as effective an escape of late, as elephants do have annoyingly persistent ways of intruding upon one's consciousness. To complicate matters, paddlers are certainly not unified when it comes to identifying what constitutes a threat to the environment or to humanity at large. Neither paddlers here, nor those based south of the border. Shhhh! Don't mention on a paddling site the name of the plain talking fearless leader who just announced he's withdrawing his nation from the Paris Accord. That might offend a really nice guy who supports him. Please forgive me this (mis)quote: "First they came for the socialists, but since I wasn't a socialist, I just continued on paddling..."


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 Post subject: Re: Elephant in the Room
PostPosted: June 2nd, 2017, 9:35 am 
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Non-paddling related discussions.

I guess climate change won't affect anyone's paddling life, eh?


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 Post subject: Re: Elephant in the Room
PostPosted: June 2nd, 2017, 10:27 am 
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It has impacted my canoeing because I would love very much to go to that Wisconsin Canoe Symposium but there is no way in hell I'm going to the USA for pleasure under this administration.


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 Post subject: Re: Elephant in the Room
PostPosted: June 2nd, 2017, 11:23 am 
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Well Alan, I think that's short sighted. There are millions of Americans who would be your friend despite your politics. After all, we are humans, more than the sum of one political viewpoint. If I had the time and cash right now, I would be taking off to the US to visit my many canoeing internet friends, several who have political views contrary to mine. The world will keep trucking on, with or without our indignation.


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 Post subject: Re: Elephant in the Room
PostPosted: June 2nd, 2017, 2:06 pm 
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I'm not talking about the people, I'm talking about the border policies. On a whim they can force me to disclose the password to unlock my phone? Nope. End of story right there for me. Just isn't going to happen.


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 Post subject: Re: Elephant in the Room
PostPosted: June 2nd, 2017, 2:20 pm 
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I'm with Alan on this----shorted sighted or not. They won't get a cent from me!

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 Post subject: Re: Elephant in the Room
PostPosted: June 2nd, 2017, 2:24 pm 
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Yes, the world will probably "keep trucking on", but our lakes, rivers, and forests might not do as well. In any case, indignation, or rather, hand-wringing without political engagement isn't very useful. I re-read the original post here and realize that the question presupposes that an explanation for present policies might be done in an apolitical way. Wish it could be done, and everybody feel good, too, but policy and politics are, like it or not, parts of the same tree. I understand, though, that political analysis can be found in myriad locations elsewhere on line, some of which are downright difficult to avoid. Commentators at some of these sites engage in some pretty disturbing polemics. I'm certainly not eager to lose "polite" conversation here ("polite" also from the same root word!) to the hateful political ranting one encounters elsewhere, especially where anonymity ensures lack of accountability. As for visiting or not visiting the US, it's less than useful to cut off your nose to spite your face. By refusing to engage in contact I believe that's what you do. The US has wonderful people and places, and its troubling leadership, present , past, or future, doesn't, and shouldn't, define its value.


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 Post subject: Re: Elephant in the Room
PostPosted: June 2nd, 2017, 3:48 pm 
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martin2007 wrote:
. As for visiting or not visiting the US, it's less than useful to cut off your nose to spite your face.



That's not it at all. If tourists stop visiting right now that a moron is in charge
maybe they will get the msg.

If some Americans on here are offended by what I just said----too bad!!

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 Post subject: Re: Elephant in the Room
PostPosted: June 2nd, 2017, 6:37 pm 
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Here is a concrete example - my Scout troop has done an Adirondacks trip every fall. It has been a highlight of every year and greatly enjoyed by all. But every year we've had Muslim kids, kids from Mexico, and really kids from all over the world since our troop meets in a very multicultural neighbourhood. It was already a lot of work and responsibility to take a Scout troop across the border but we've all decided we just aren't doing it under this administration. What if we get halfway there and suddenly 45 snaps his fingers and declares another whole swath of countries "enemies". What if we get in and overnight something changes and we can't get back out?

We've always had great experiences on that trip. Met tonnes of wonderful people. And experienced something so terrific in the US that just does not exist in Canada - a deep respect for Scouts. Right to the core of their being. It truly is palpable and makes us proud of who we are and what we are doing.

But it is just too darned risky now.


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 Post subject: Re: Elephant in the Room
PostPosted: June 2nd, 2017, 7:14 pm 
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Remember that it really does not matter what d rump says or does. States and cities and local governments have a lot of control and no matter what one branch of the Feds do. We just are carrying on and fighting for what is right and green and good for our grandkids
You can punish us the little guys if that makes you feel noble
Trump don't care a shit
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 Post subject: Re: Elephant in the Room
PostPosted: June 2nd, 2017, 7:18 pm 
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And I am afraid to come to Canada with your apparent attitudes of blaming me for him. I'd much rather spend my time enjoying your country than explaining the unexplainable.trying to hide my license plate or making an appropriate bumper sticker
You all do know that election results are not blanket approvals?


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 Post subject: Re: Elephant in the Room
PostPosted: June 2nd, 2017, 7:24 pm 
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Well if you think I am blaming anyone for 45 I don't think you are reading what I am writing. 45 does control the border policies. I already said above that we've had wonderful trips to the Adirondacks and met many stupendous people there. Did you miss the part I wrote about how great it is to be in a place where Scouts are revered in a way that just is not the case here in Canada? You seem to be missing all of that.

45 does control the border. That is the 1 and only concern. Especially when I would typically be trying to take kids across it from some of the countries he has vilified.

One of my Scouts could end up being pulled into an hours-long interrogation at the border just like that. They would be held alone with no contact to us.

I do not blame you at all for that.

The problem is getting into the country in the first place.

I just do not think you are reading what I am writing. Or I am doing a much worse job of explaining it than I am imagining.


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