View topic - A Patriot's Guide to Camping During a Trade War

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PostPosted: June 22nd, 2018, 6:52 pm 
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Rob, I agree that a boycott of McDonald's will be harmful to Canadians, same as boycotting US-made gear will be harmful to Canadian retailers. My point was that McDonald's is a US multinational and they do receive income from royalties from their foreign restaurants. A quick google shows that income from foreign non-American restaurants was in the billions of $$$ but that might be wrong. I'm not going to read through their annual report and financials but revenue from Canadian sources is said to be in there somewhere.

Anyway, boycotting gear seems pretty insignificant for real results compared to the larger forces at work in Canada, and where the bigger-picture megabucks are going. Cheers.

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PostPosted: June 22nd, 2018, 8:58 pm 
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littleredcanoe wrote:
I realize McLeans was an opinion piece but it's inaccurate. Amazon has been the target of 45's temper tantrums and he and Jeff Bezos head of Amazon are fierce enemies. Amazon has carried some Ivanka Trump stuff but its hardly in the same nest as Trump shits in. By inference Whole Foods gets a pass too. Thats OK. Pretty soon we won't be able to afford to shop there.


At first I was confused by the inclusion of Amazon to the list, given the public berating Trump has laid on Bezos, but, and I have no proof of this, but I'll bet somewhere in Trumps non-divested businesses, he's buying up Amazon stock every time he drives the price down with his tweets. Crazy like a fox.


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PostPosted: June 24th, 2018, 9:55 pm 
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Sick at heart. Allan

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PostPosted: June 25th, 2018, 7:27 am 
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Allan Jacobs wrote:
Sick at heart. Allan

Don't be.. Canada will come out way ahead esp in trade. If the US plays my way or no play, it seems there is more room for Canada to do trade deals.


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PostPosted: July 3rd, 2018, 11:32 am 
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Sounds more like truth than propaganda to me.

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PostPosted: July 3rd, 2018, 12:35 pm 
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There is a reason why some forums forbid posting about politics and religion. This forum does not specifically say anything about it, but we still need to be careful.


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PostPosted: July 3rd, 2018, 4:02 pm 
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I will send a note to the administrator and recommend that this forum update the Netiquette to explicitly recommend avoiding politics and religion.

I contacted them previously about this thread when it first started going off topic and getting offensive.

In principle I think the Netiquette rules were already excellent but maybe they need to be more explicit to make it easier for the moderators to step in.

I appreciate some of the early responses.


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PostPosted: July 5th, 2018, 7:32 am 
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daypaddler wrote:
I will send a note to the administrator and recommend that this forum update the Netiquette to explicitly recommend avoiding politics and religion.

I contacted them previously about this thread when it first started going off topic and getting offensive.

In principle I think the Netiquette rules were already excellent but maybe they need to be more explicit to make it easier for the moderators to step in.

I appreciate some of the early responses.


Thank you Daypaddler for drawing this topic to my attention. Right now, I am the only person here administering & occasionally moderating what happens on these forums & on the whole myccr.com website, so unless threads like this are drawn to my attention, I am likely not to see them.

I am currently reading through the posts on this thread & removing all those that are very political, inflammatory etc. Many of the posts do not belong on this website, even if they are well thought out. While politics & religion are not explicitly banned in the Netiquette rules, in general please refrain from really getting into these topics as it usually just causes problems and/or bad feelings. I will look into explicitly stating in our Netiquette section about refraining from posting about politics & religion.


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PostPosted: July 5th, 2018, 8:12 am 
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post deleted

Just realized that marscanoe deleted my earlier rather benign post calling for an open discussion - a request for no censure is itself censured....

So I expedited the process by deleting this one myself.

If anyone cares about my reply to nessmuk about immigration PM me. Unless PM's are censored too?


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PostPosted: July 5th, 2018, 10:31 am 
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Not my writing but I agree and learned something
By David Honig

I'm going to get a little wonky and write about Donald Trump and negotiations. For those who don't know, I'm an adjunct professor at Indiana University - Robert H. McKinney School of Law and I teach negotiations. Okay, here goes.

Trump, as most of us know, is the credited author of "The Art of the Deal," a book that was actually ghost written by a man named Tony Schwartz, who was given access to Trump and wrote based upon his observations. If you've read The Art of the Deal, or if you've followed Trump lately, you'll know, even if you didn't know the label, that he sees all dealmaking as what we call "distributive bargaining."

Distributive bargaining always has a winner and a loser. It happens when there is a fixed quantity of something and two sides are fighting over how it gets distributed. Think of it as a pie and you're fighting over who gets how many pieces. In Trump's world, the bargaining was for a building, or for construction work, or subcontractors. He perceives a successful bargain as one in which there is a winner and a loser, so if he pays less than the seller wants, he wins. The more he saves the more he wins.

The other type of bargaining is called integrative bargaining. In integrative bargaining the two sides don't have a complete conflict of interest, and it is possible to reach mutually beneficial agreements. Think of it, not a single pie to be divided by two hungry people, but as a baker and a caterer negotiating over how many pies will be baked at what prices, and the nature of their ongoing relationship after this one gig is over.

The problem with Trump is that he sees only distributive bargaining in an international world that requires integrative bargaining. He can raise tariffs, but so can other countries. He can't demand they not respond. There is no defined end to the negotiation and there is no simple winner and loser. There are always more pies to be baked. Further, negotiations aren't binary. China's choices aren't (a) buy soybeans from US farmers, or (b) don't buy soybeans. They can also (c) buy soybeans from Russia, or Argentina, or Brazil, or Canada, etc. That completely strips the distributive bargainer of his power to win or lose, to control the negotiation.

One of the risks of distributive bargaining is bad will. In a one-time distributive bargain, e.g. negotiating with the cabinet maker in your casino about whether you're going to pay his whole bill or demand a discount, you don't have to worry about your ongoing credibility or the next deal. If you do that to the cabinet maker, you can bet he won't agree to do the cabinets in your next casino, and you're going to have to find another cabinet maker.

There isn't another Canada.

So when you approach international negotiation, in a world as complex as ours, with integrated economies and multiple buyers and sellers, you simply must approach them through integrative bargaining. If you attempt distributive bargaining, success is impossible. And we see that already.

Trump has raised tariffs on China. China responded, in addition to raising tariffs on US goods, by dropping all its soybean orders from the US and buying them from Russia. The effect is not only to cause tremendous harm to US farmers, but also to increase Russian revenue, making Russia less susceptible to sanctions and boycotts, increasing its economic and political power in the world, and reducing ours. Trump saw steel and aluminum and thought it would be an easy win, BECAUSE HE SAW ONLY STEEL AND ALUMINUM - HE SEES EVERY NEGOTIATION AS DISTRIBUTIVE. China saw it as integrative, and integrated Russia and its soybean purchase orders into a far more complex negotiation ecosystem.

Trump has the same weakness politically. For every winner there must be a loser. And that's just not how politics works, not over the long run.

For people who study negotiations, this is incredibly basic stuff, negotiations 101, definitions you learn before you even start talking about styles and tactics. And here's another huge problem for us.

Trump is utterly convinced that his experience in a closely held real estate company has prepared him to run a nation, and therefore he rejects the advice of people who spent entire careers studying the nuances of international negotiations and diplomacy. But the leaders on the other side of the table have not eschewed expertise, they have embraced it. And that means they look at Trump and, given his very limited tool chest and his blindly distributive understanding of negotiation, they know exactly what he is going to do and exactly how to respond to it.

From a professional negotiation point of view, Trump isn't even bringing checkers to a chess match. He's bringing a quarter that he insists on flipping for heads or tails, while everybody else is studying the chess board to decide whether its better to open with Najdorf or Grünfeld.


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PostPosted: July 5th, 2018, 11:09 am 
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A good post, LRC, but any attempt to have a reasonable discussion about Trump is doomed to failure in the same way that any mention of Hitler kills any other discussion. And NO: I am not comparing the 2 men!!

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PostPosted: July 5th, 2018, 12:58 pm 
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Back to the original post.

You can always buy gear from me in Manitoba though I have to confess that much of the materials I use come from elsewhere.

And the Boreal Saw is a nice piece of kit if you you need to process bigger wood or clear a trail. Not sure why MEc are selling the Gomboy with a medium tooth blade. Fine for trimming the roses but you really need an XL tooth blade. You can check out a wider range of Silky saws and other stuff at bigbeartools.com in BC

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PostPosted: July 5th, 2018, 3:18 pm 
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chris randall wrote:
Back to the original post.

You can always buy gear from me .....


Thanks Chris for getting this back on the original topic!!


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PostPosted: July 5th, 2018, 4:23 pm 
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marscanoe wrote:
chris randall wrote:
Back to the original post.

You can always buy gear from me .....


Thanks Chris for getting this back on the original topic!!


I'm not sure that was really the original topic. The original poster wasn't asking for good sources of canoe tripping gear made in Canada but was rather asking how to participate in the trade war which is a much more political topic. In that context you may want to consider pruning the entire thread.

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PostPosted: July 6th, 2018, 5:57 am 
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On some technical forums we put a /s at the end of a post indicating sarcasm, not to be taken too seriously. Note the /s at the end of this post.

Or you might simply say "sorry" to those that want to dictate what others can talk about and advise the gentle reader to not click on topics that may offend them.

It's easy:
1) click on "view active topics"
2) observe the list of topics
3) don't click on the ones that may offend you
4) if you inadvertently find something you find offensive in a thread stop reading immediately, think about ponies, and don't open that topic again.

Another approach would be to address that that you find offensive, engage with the offender explaining the error of their ways, and contribute something positive. Your choice. Free will and all that rot. You get to decide for you, and I decide for me. (For those that say "take it somewhere else", well, there is no where else to talk to the CCR community about off-topic things. There's actually a forum called "off topic".)

Netiquette rules should say:

- Don't be stupid.
- If you are being stupid other posters will probably point that out to you. If they do, think about not being stupid.
- If you keep being stupid a moderator will eventual ask you in a stern deep voice to cut it out. At that point you should probably consider not contributing your wisdom to that particular thread again.
- Note that if you are unable to contain the stupidity flowing from your fingers the moderator may simply delete your contributions.
- Note also that if your stupidity overflows into other threads your account, the moniker and persona you have so carefully nourished, your very existance in this particular piece of the ether may be extinguished
- in extreme cases your entire post history may be delete. Now that's harsh! (see note 1 below)
- and if you really piss people off not only you but your entire genetic line will be forever ostracized. So there!

As it is written, so it shall be.


Note1: Yup, it really happened.
Note 2: There is no note 2.

/s

<....waiting for Neil to spank me. Again.>


(Edited to add that you can easily see the tiny writing at the top in a legible sized text by clicking on the Quote button below.)


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