View topic - A Patriot's Guide to Camping During a Trade War

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PostPosted: July 6th, 2018, 7:38 am 
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In general 'maybe', Krusty, but when a certain name comes up all chances for a reasonable discussion fly out the window.

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PostPosted: July 6th, 2018, 9:38 am 
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A Toronto Star article today - There is no Canadian push to boycott all things American, but there is a growing national response to Donald Trump - sums up the national sentiment and the political angle nicely.

https://www.thestar.com/opinion/star-co ... trump.html

On the home front, yesterday I put that Florida orange juice back on the Loblaw shelf and bought two liters of B.C. apple juice instead. And the salesperson at the US-based trek/climb agency said he understood when I told him I'd rather not book a Kili climb from an American company just now, given that his White House had just decared war on Canada. On a macroeconomic level, my actions are totally inconsequential - but on the micro level I feel better with my "Trump-free" shopping basket of goods and services.

BTW - Krusty, your post yesterday morning was an excellent "read". Thanks for putting things together so succinctly.

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Last edited by true_north on July 8th, 2018, 10:58 am, edited 1 time in total.

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PostPosted: July 6th, 2018, 5:45 pm 
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This thread shows how ignorant people are re trade.
And also lumping all US people in with T. He lost the popular vote
True North. Your FL orange juice is likely not. Its from Brazil. Citrus Greening.

However I am all in favor of buying local. I will never buy Canadian Maple Syrup not cause I don't like you but because I value local maple growers.


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PostPosted: July 6th, 2018, 8:36 pm 
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Krusty wrote:

<....waiting for Neil to spank me. Again.>



Haha! Your memory is prodigious. How many years ago was that anyway?

My take on these trade wars is that I don't want to participate in or promote this idiocy and that I have many friends in the US.

Regarding potential border crossing ills I have been crossing once or twice a week for ten years. Since Trump got elected there has been no change in my experience. I get one or two questions by a usually very friendly customs officer and continue on my way.


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PostPosted: July 6th, 2018, 8:42 pm 
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Buying local is anti-trade. Trade leads to prosperity for all. Trump's policies might lead to a short-term boost in the American economy. In the long term his policies may well lead to economic hardship for the US because the rest of the civilized world will league against the US.


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PostPosted: July 6th, 2018, 9:13 pm 
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I expect there will be short term hardships on both sides of the border and across the oceans until domestic pressures persuade 45 to back down, and even then it will be difficult for him unless he can find a way to do so while saving face.

Hopefully, American soybean farmers et al. will still have a market to sell to in China, and won't be cast aside while China turns to Russia to supply their need, enriching Putin's economy.


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PostPosted: July 7th, 2018, 11:08 am 
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https://www.nytimes.com/2018/07/06/read ... nship.html

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PostPosted: July 7th, 2018, 6:23 pm 
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open_side_up wrote:

Hopefully, American soybean farmers et al. will still have a market to sell to in China, and won't be cast aside while China turns to Russia to supply their need, enriching Putin's economy.



Russia doesn't have any soybean to sell to anyone and as far as China buying from Russia, if you can't burn it (gas/oil) or build with it (wood) they don't have much of interest to China.

On the soybean side Brazil and Argentina will be the main beneficiaries of Chinese retaliatory tariffs on US grown soybeans. Canada will do ok as well.

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PostPosted: July 8th, 2018, 5:01 am 
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Neil wrote:
Buying local is anti-trade.
Only if you are paying a premium, supporting a less-efficient supplier. Efficiency and productivity, which is/should be reflected in a lower price, leads to prosperity for all.


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PostPosted: July 8th, 2018, 3:20 pm 
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Krusty wrote:
Neil wrote:
Buying local is anti-trade.
Only if you are paying a premium, supporting a less-efficient supplier. Efficiency and productivity, which is/should be reflected in a lower price, leads to prosperity for all.


The choice of who I support is complicated as is the definition of efficiency. I buy locally sometimes because I want to support my community, knowing that they will (I hope) support me when the time comes. I also know that having thriving local businesses helps support infrastructure that is useful to me.

I may also choose to pay more as it saves me time from having to drive in to the city. Ironically this is also why I buy online, the cost of shipping is worth less than a two hour round trip and the cost and hassle that involves. I always try to use the postal service for the same reason as given in para. 1, having a local post office makes life easier for me.

Lastly I may choose to buy food locally because I know that the biggest source of GHG emissions in the food industry is due to transport. For example. My organic milk comes from a dairy 5 minutes from where I work. It comes in glass bottles that I wash and return for a deposit. I'm happy to pay more for it.

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PostPosted: July 9th, 2018, 6:08 am 
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chris wrote:
Lastly I may choose to buy food locally because I know that the biggest source of GHG emissions in the food industry is due to transport.
Actually it turns out that this is true for the exceptional case only like the one you mention of the consumer driving a long way for only a little food. It's a common misconception, I think partly because local marketers and advertisers over-sell it as part of their sales pitch.

Google finds lots of authoritative references. This one says "...transportation accounts for about 14% of the total energy used by the U.S. food system, about 5% from personal grocery shopping trips and only about 9% from distributing raw and processed food."
https://www.oregon.gov/deq/FilterDocs/P ... ummary.pdf

Quote:
I buy locally sometimes because I want to support my community, knowing that they will (I hope) support me when the time comes. I also know that having thriving local businesses helps support infrastructure that is useful to me.
So you are effectively imposing a tariff on non-local goods and like all tariffs it's you, the consumer, that pays more. Extrapolate to the national level, thrown in some cherry-picked examples, mix with a generous portion of hyperbole and BAM, we've got ourselves a trade war!


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PostPosted: July 9th, 2018, 8:39 am 
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About that there "trade war" business in the title... seems America is at war with China.

Quote:
China’s Commerce Ministry said the U.S. is “launching the largest trade war in economic history to date.”


Someone on Wall street said today is the first day of the war with China. And the US Fed said their central bankers are getting worried over where this war is going to take things.

Dunno who's better at surviving this, the Chinese or the Americans, who's up for a meal of fried rats and stale bread... gonna be hard times, y'know. Lots of trees in Canada, the inner bark can be eaten, that might help.

PS... damn, forgot that tree bark is a forest product and exporting that to American restaurants will probably mean tariffs and price inflation. Maybe tree bark with maple syrup.

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PostPosted: July 9th, 2018, 11:42 am 
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One must think long and hard before undertaking these "boycott American" campaigns. Most big companies operate and employ Canadians in many provinces just like many Canadian companies operate and employ throughout the USA. The last thing either Country needs is more hard working people being laid off because of the incompetence of a few world leaders.

I will always try to pick a made in Canada product, but at the end of the day it is about value for my dollar and if any particular company is not competitive on the market place, that is up to their management to fix. I will purchase the best quality and value for my money regardless of Country of origin.

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PostPosted: July 9th, 2018, 1:24 pm 
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I’m
Gonna
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Bugs
Locally sourced of course
https://www.pressherald.com/2018/07/05/ ... ld-monday/


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PostPosted: July 9th, 2018, 3:14 pm 
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Krusty wrote:
chris wrote:
Lastly I may choose to buy food locally because I know that the biggest source of GHG emissions in the food industry is due to transport.
Actually it turns out that this is true for the exceptional case only like the one you mention of the consumer driving a long way for only a little food. It's a common misconception, I think partly because local marketers and advertisers over-sell it as part of their sales pitch.

Google finds lots of authoritative references. This one says "...transportation accounts for about 14% of the total energy used by the U.S. food system, about 5% from personal grocery shopping trips and only about 9% from distributing raw and processed food."
https://www.oregon.gov/deq/FilterDocs/P ... ummary.pdf

Quote:
I buy locally sometimes because I want to support my community, knowing that they will (I hope) support me when the time comes. I also know that having thriving local businesses helps support infrastructure that is useful to me.
So you are effectively imposing a tariff on non-local goods and like all tariffs it's you, the consumer, that pays more. Extrapolate to the national level, thrown in some cherry-picked examples, mix with a generous portion of hyperbole and BAM, we've got ourselves a trade war!



OK I will give you that one but at least quote a Canadian reference for your assertions on GHGs! It is likely that food miles in Canada are (potentially) way higher than in the USA, particularly in winter, and most of it is going by road instead of by sea , the method often quoted in many of the calculations. Long distance transportation could also potentially result in more spoilage before it reaches the consumer.

Trade war, no, personal preference and cost benefit analysis. Choices are made on a case by case basis, not in an arbitrary way as would be done by tariffs. Not expressing any preference as to the original source of the materials or goods as I realise that a small town can't support much in the way of complex industrial manufacturing. I have always thought of war as something engaged in by the state

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