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PostPosted: April 2nd, 2021, 7:30 pm 
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Callee wrote:
For sure that was a reasonable concern last year, but now we have real numbers on which to make a judgement: over the entire summer season last year as our population almost tripled with visitors from the city, yet our own local case rate was barely affected. Granted, that's only one season, but still, to me, highly suggestive that us locals don't have much reason to be concerned with transmission from the city. Especially when they are visitors coming up only to head out on their canoe.

It's just such a disappointment to me, the state of things: golfing is allowed but canoeing isn't? As Doug Ford would say, the Premier needs to give his head a shake!


RHaslam wrote:
In the fall, we had many thousands of moose hunters invade our area, causing quite bit of concern. However, there were zero cases as a result. Thunder Bay currently has one of the highest case loads in Canada, and it's not due to people camping in parks or on Crown Land. It is primarily due to the disregarding of Covid precautions and some other unique conditions.

On the other hand, the new variants might change the game, who knows.


The case load was also far, far lower over the summer of 2020. I remember coming out of Wabakimi the second week of August to reports of double digit caseloads for the entire province. We currently have thousands - and last summer was without new mutations.

And don't forget - it's not just canoeing. I'm itching to get up to the hunt camp early this year, especially with the early ice-out. That typically involves a few trips to a few local stores to fix a few things, stocking up on firewood and propane and a few dry goods, and a visit to Bancroft, at least in my case. Now while *I* will be careful and conscientious about it, not everyone will be.

Not everyone who heads out in a canoe has everything ready before they leave, either. Once a year or so I go up camping with a few old friends to catch up on life. Usually, for a three or four day weekend, we buy our food on the way up in Huntsville or Parry Sound. Maybe somebody needs a new PFD, or there's a last minute stove part we need. I doubt we're the only fellows who do that. The policy as implemented, while not fair to those who have their ducks in a row before they leave, is designed to prevent exactly such a trip.

But I still agree with people - OP is massively mismanaging this, and that is in no small part Doug Ford's fault. The buck stops with him.

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PostPosted: April 4th, 2021, 11:28 am 
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Has anybody figured out when this 'hold' on backcountry camping is supposed to end---any gov't announce ment.We have reservations for Algon on May 17. Maybe they will be cancelled.

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PostPosted: April 4th, 2021, 12:52 pm 
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Only my May 1st booking has been cancelled. My two other May bookings still seem to be in place.

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PostPosted: April 4th, 2021, 2:09 pm 
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It's a 28 day lockdown which expires at the beginning of May I assume. It officially expires on May 2nd - 29 days from April 3rd.

Of course, typical of a bureaucracy, the end date to the "temporary closure" is not mentioned on the OP website.

Looks like reservations open up again on May 3rd, this is typical of every site in Killarney:

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PostPosted: April 4th, 2021, 6:22 pm 
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Part of me wants to see hundreds of us set up tents all over a 18th fairway at some golf course(does Ford golf?). Golf is ok but backcountry closed, it's nuts.


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PostPosted: April 4th, 2021, 6:31 pm 
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steve.of.london wrote:
Part of me wants to see hundreds of us set up tents all over a 18th fairway at some golf course(does Ford golf?). Golf is ok but backcountry closed, it's nuts.


Yes with participants all sporting this
https://www.amazon.com/Donald-Adults-Tr ... 025&sr=8-2


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PostPosted: April 4th, 2021, 6:40 pm 
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This latest version of 'shutdown', 'emerg brake, or whatever fanciful name they have dreamt up is absolutely bonkers. I wonder if Doug found a stash of crack that his bro left him.---- a few fries short of a happy meal!!(BTW, LRC---the word 'fun' does not belong in the same sentence as that guy's name)

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PostPosted: April 7th, 2021, 3:13 pm 
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The new stay at home lock down is four weeks long apparently. Takes us to May 5th or 6th. Just checked my reservations and the three I had in April and the one I had on the first weekend of May are cancelled. Deja vu eh.

At least I managed to get appointments for the vaccine on the 21st of this month. We had registered with one of the drug stores a while ago but heard through the grapevine that the web booking did not get to the drug store stores. Bit of a mess but not long ago I was thinking it would be September before we could get the jab. Baby steps. Just be careful not to step in it:)


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PostPosted: April 7th, 2021, 4:53 pm 
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The "stay-at-home" order allows golf courses to remain open under the guise of exercise... Frankly I can't fathom how letting people golf together on a course is less risky than solo backcountry camping. Ontario Parks made the decision on their own accord for their own reasons, but apart from that decision by OP, there is NO MENTION of restrictions for camping on Crown Land in the text of the order:

https://news.ontario.ca/en/release/6102 ... home-order

Travel between regions is discouraged for any non-essential reasons... But exercise is permitted. So it's anyone's guess whether Crown Land camping would be permitted or not. It may come down to the discretion of the person enforcing the order, such as a police officer or bylaw inspector or whatever.

Of course, the whole "no travel between regions" thing is nonsense for those of us in or near Toronto... the border of Toronto and York region is Steeles Avenue; under this order, you technically aren't allowed to cross the street.

I am not a lawyer and I am not offering legal advice. But the way it reads, there's enough ambiguity in the order that would allow a very solid defense against any fines or other forms of prosecution.


Last edited by PaddlingGal on April 7th, 2021, 6:54 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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PostPosted: April 7th, 2021, 6:28 pm 
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I will play devils advocate. Backcountry camping can cause risks to rescuers. For that reason much of the White Mountains near my house was closed to hikers last summer, particularly areas where a six to eight person non social distanced carry was the only way out. Now whether that should apply to canoe areas where there usually is a water body to bring a plane in I have no idea But it sure should be spelled out by govt what is closed and what is not!

For the moment its a race between vaccine and virus and that virus is darn slippery.. Changes form and not for the better.

Interesting NY Times article on this https://www.nytimes.com/2021/04/07/us/c ... e=Homepage


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PostPosted: April 8th, 2021, 3:50 am 
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Meanwhile back at the ranch ..... incredibly warm and early spring

Ice is out and flies are starting to buzz around , fiddle heads are just about to sprout and wild leeks
will come alog soon as well as morels


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PostPosted: April 8th, 2021, 8:59 am 
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My sister and her family returned to Canada about a year ago from Texas (work). My 19 year old nephew still keeps in contact with his Texas friends. Most of his 19 year old friends have already had BOTH vaccine shots. Texas has re-opened and their covid stats are plummeting.

Meanwhile in Canada we have only partially vaccinated the 80+ year olds.


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PostPosted: April 8th, 2021, 9:56 am 
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littleredcanoe wrote:
I will play devils advocate. Backcountry camping can cause risks to rescuers. For that reason much of the White Mountains near my house was closed to hikers last summer, particularly areas where a six to eight person non social distanced carry was the only way out. Now whether that should apply to canoe areas where there usually is a water body to bring a plane in I have no idea But it sure should be spelled out by govt what is closed and what is not!

For the moment its a race between vaccine and virus and that virus is darn slippery.. Changes form and not for the better.

Interesting NY Times article on this https://www.nytimes.com/2021/04/07/us/c ... e=Homepage


As a Devil's advocate to your advocate (and for the record I generally agree with you that exposing local stores and rescue operations to adventurers from other public health districts is against the spirit of the stay at home order), I would only say that the people on this forum are generally not the same as those singled out in that article, i.e. "inexperienced adventurers".

Regarding the current stay at home order, I don't think there is much ambiguity... I think it would be tough to argue traveling across multiple public health districts to do your exercise is "essential". Surely you could hike, canoe, or kayak somewhere closer to home if exercise is your only goal. Will you get fined? Unlikely... so far fines have only been given out due to complaints.

Do I agree with it? No, I think that solo camping should be allowed if golf is. Unfortunately, we are in the minority; for many people, camping is something that is done in groups. Hopefully this lockdown combined with vaccine rollout does enough that we can enjoy the summer fully. I'm chomping at the bit to get out on the Georgian Bay with my new kayak that I bought in November. I will be using it on the lakes around Guelph for part of my "essential exercise" but that is not quite what I bought it for.


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PostPosted: April 8th, 2021, 11:28 am 
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If I could play devil's advocate to your devil's advocate to his devil's advocate.....

Since I live on Georgian Bay, or very close to it in any case, I see a bit of a false distinction happening there.

I'm a permanent resident. We are outnumbered about 3:1 by seasonal residents. Typically, and I am typical, permanent residents are of a lower economic class and live in the cheaper areas in-land. Seasonal residents tend to be much wealthier and they live on the water front land. For almost all of them, as the name implies, this is their second (or third) residence, after their primary residence down in the city.

Last spring they closed all the public beaches and boat launches.

This affected the seasonal residents not at all, as they are their own private water access on their own property.

It was only the poorer permanent residents who could not access the water. We were supposed to sit there sweltering while we watched the rich frolic and water ski out on the same water we were usually on.

The tension between seasonal and permanent residents is already a problem for town councils to deal with. So eventually the local councils announced that, provincial order or no, they were not going to enforce any beach closures.

Anyway, I'm thinking about that again when I read your story. You have a kayak. You want to go kayaking on Georgian Bay. I can't blame you, I have friends kayaking on the bay as I type. It's beautiful here today.

I can also guarantee you that there are other people from guelph who will be kayaking out on Georgian Bay very shortly. The only difference between them and you? They are wealthy enough to own a second residence up here.

All that to say, I'm not sure I totally disagree, but I am definitely concerned about social policies that apply to people differently depending on their wealth.


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PostPosted: April 8th, 2021, 12:14 pm 
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Callee wrote:
If I could play devil's advocate to your devil's advocate to his devil's advocate.....

Since I live on Georgian Bay, or very close to it in any case, I see a bit of a false distinction happening there.

I'm a permanent resident. We are outnumbered about 3:1 by seasonal residents. Typically, and I am typical, permanent residents are of a lower economic class and live in the cheaper areas in-land. Seasonal residents tend to be much wealthier and they live on the water front land. For almost all of them, as the name implies, this is their second (or third) residence, after their primary residence down in the city.

Last spring they closed all the public beaches and boat launches.

This affected the seasonal residents not at all, as they are their own private water access on their own property.

It was only the poorer permanent residents who could not access the water. We were supposed to sit there sweltering while we watched the rich frolic and water ski out on the same water we were usually on.

The tension between seasonal and permanent residents is already a problem for town councils to deal with. So eventually the local councils announced that, provincial order or no, they were not going to enforce any beach closures.

Anyway, I'm thinking about that again when I read your story. You have a kayak. You want to go kayaking on Georgian Bay. I can't blame you, I have friends kayaking on the bay as I type. It's beautiful here today.

I can also guarantee you that there are other people from guelph who will be kayaking out on Georgian Bay very shortly. The only difference between them and you? They are wealthy enough to own a second residence up here.

All that to say, I'm not sure I totally disagree, but I am definitely concerned about social policies that apply to people differently depending on their wealth.


Hi Callee,

I agree that social policies should certainly not apply to people depending on their wealth, even if it is unintentional. I'm sure there are many examples like yours that unfairly punished people. I had not considered cases like these when making my above arguments... I was really just considering cases like PaddlingGal and I, who both want to travel from our respective cities and spend a few days by ourselves either on crown land or in a provincial park.

I have pretty much given up hope of doing my trip in April due to this order. My main hope now is that the order is lifted soon enough that I can beat the black flies. Last I checked they tend to not follow government restrictions and will be out one way or another!


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