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PostPosted: November 17th, 2021, 9:36 am 
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Next year Killarney is going site specific . Will make planning easier but it will take out some of the suspense of finding a great site.

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PostPosted: November 17th, 2021, 11:21 am 
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Generally ok with this (they've been site specific - on the La Cloche Silhouette trail for sometime) the main issue with canoeing vs hiking is how weather dependent it can be two days of big wind can screw up site specific reservations pretty darned quickly.


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PostPosted: November 17th, 2021, 1:26 pm 
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I'm not sure about other parks, but Kawartha Highlands has 1 or 2 non-reservable "emergency" sites on most lakes. They may be doing something similar at Killarney.

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PostPosted: November 17th, 2021, 4:12 pm 
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PacketFiend wrote:
I'm not sure about other parks, but Kawartha Highlands has 1 or 2 non-reservable "emergency" sites on most lakes. They may be doing something similar at Killarney.



I've been told that Algonquin does this as well. Although I can't confirm or deny....


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PostPosted: November 17th, 2021, 5:42 pm 
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I am super disappointed that OP is going in this direction.


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PostPosted: November 18th, 2021, 11:00 am 
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Quote:
I am super disappointed that OP is going in this direction.


Can you expand?

I'm engaged in some conversations related to similar issues.

I know of some places that have no reservation system at all, and when those parks are busy people risk packing up and driving for 3 hours, taking a portage or 2, and then finding themselves with no legal/good campsite. As a result, these parks have become 'places not paddle' for families and anyone who can only get away on weekends and peak times, which is backwards.

I'd like to know thoughts for and against various reservation systems for busy canoeing parks.

Cheers, Pat.

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PostPosted: November 18th, 2021, 2:01 pm 
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I am guessing people are sad about the loss of sense of "adventure".
I like knowing that when I get to the lake I know which site to go to after a long day.
Fought big waves on Rosebary in May bouncing from site to site.


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PostPosted: November 18th, 2021, 3:49 pm 
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I generally support this. I like knowing where I'm trying to end up, and it means that with a weaker paddler in the front I don't have to bust it to try and beat others to good sites and can actually relax and enjoy the paddle.

I guess the downside, aside from the loss of sense of adventure, is that if you don't like your site, you're stuck with it.


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PostPosted: November 18th, 2021, 4:49 pm 
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Anyone have link to govt announcement etc?


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PostPosted: November 18th, 2021, 7:55 pm 
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There is an Alert on the main Killarney page at Ontario Parks (it's subtle)

https://www.ontarioparks.com/park/killarney

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PostPosted: November 18th, 2021, 10:12 pm 
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Back in June I travelled the Tim River from Algonquin Access Point 2 to it's end near Big Trout lake. We were reserved to camp at Big Trout Creek which has a total of only one campsite and it's the only site either upstream or downstream for over an hour in either direction.

We arrived, on the edge of darkness, to discover 4 kayaks parked on the beach. With no reasonable alternative and having it reserved for us we camped on the site anyway.

Reservation systems are only effective if people follow the reservation systems. Watch the YouTube videos and count how many videos have people not really paying much attention to where they are supposed to be once they are in the park.

Emergencies are different. In my case the four kayakers were absolutely beat, mildly lost and demoralized. Two of them gave up the next day returning to their car while the other two continued on. Had they arrived after us we would have gladly shared the site with them in this circumstance!

~Jamie N


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PostPosted: November 19th, 2021, 8:03 am 
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Satchmo wrote:
I generally support this. I like knowing where I'm trying to end up, and it means that with a weaker paddler in the front I don't have to bust it to try and beat others to good sites and can actually relax and enjoy the paddle.

I guess the downside, aside from the loss of sense of adventure, is that if you don't like your site, you're stuck with it.


I was going to say the same. I always feel like I'm in a race with unseen campers at parks that just have you reserve the lake or general area. Generally trying to get away from camping at those parks anyway, but they are pretty convenient for hauling the kiddo's out to.


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PostPosted: November 19th, 2021, 8:55 am 
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Just make sure you are ready at 6:59 AM to click the reserve button at the stroke of 7 and not 5 secs later. That is what we had to do at Killbear for Aug

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PostPosted: November 19th, 2021, 9:30 am 
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Satchmo wrote:
I generally support this. I like knowing where I'm trying to end up, and it means that with a weaker paddler in the front I don't have to bust it to try and beat others to good sites and can actually relax and enjoy the paddle.

I guess the downside, aside from the loss of sense of adventure, is that if you don't like your site, you're stuck with it.



The weaker paddler shouldn't be in the bow; the role of the bow is power. Canoe racers know this.

Just couldn't let it slide by.. There are people who don't want to be in the bow: most men.


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PostPosted: November 19th, 2021, 9:43 am 
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Hoolio316 wrote:
I am guessing people are sad about the loss of sense of "adventure".
I like knowing that when I get to the lake I know which site to go to after a long day.
Fought big waves on Rosebary in May bouncing from site to site.



The difference now is that you'll quite possibly be paddling through those same big waves but be forced to paddle past empty sites that you would have been happy - or even relieved - to have been able to stay at before. That is a bad thing for safety.

Overall I'm on the fence. When taking a group of novices to a place that I know well, then being able to book a specific site is a good thing. On the other hand I've seen a lot of bad sites in Killarney and Algonquin that I wouldn't want to have to book site unseen. I recall most of the sites on Norway Lake in Killarney as being a barren wasteland. I've stayed on sites in Algonquin that barely had 1 poor tent site and many sites where the Thunderbox was nowhere near 60' from the water, if not sitting in a pool of water itself.

Add in the real world safety implications of not being able to adjust your travel time or distance when you have to make it to a specific site and it is definitely going to change the experience. That change may not be fully realized for 10, 20, or even 30 years. In the short term there will be enough people who are already familiar with routes that they will be able to go ahead and book. Over time people will become more conservative trying new routes to avoid over extending themselves. New trippers will have a bad experience trying a new route and either fall back to safe, highly travelled routes or just avoid tripping altogether. Eventually numbers will plummet as the people who had learned routes when there was the flexibility to adapt to weather conditions age out. By that time no one in Ontario Parks is going to connect the drop in use with the change to site specific reservations.

Ok, that's probably an overly pessimistic piece of speculation, but I think it is a possibility. Especially in an area like Killarney which has fairly long portages and for folks starting at George Lake forces an absurd detour through Freeland and Killarney rather than being able to go directly to OSA. Sure it's a scenic enough paddle but it's also a huge bottleneck and unnecessary distance if you want to spread people out. Kind of like the 2 lane sections of Hwy 69 or the way most of southern Ontario all has to drive up the 400 before splitting the 400 and Hwy 11 at Barrie.

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