HELLO FROM DENMARK!

We are two young men, who for years have been dreaming of a two (or three) months long canoeing trip in Canada. Inspired by our big idol the Norwegian Lars Monsen.

In the summer of 2023 we will have a window and we have now started planning for it.

We have some ideas and thoughts, but we are having trouble finding a route that suits us the best. The possibilties are endless! We have been looking a lot on this website and read some books.

We were thinking either to fly to Yellowknife and have this as a starting point or to fly to Fort Chipewyan and the go from here up Slave River and the on-wards. Both are options, where we dont need to be flown in.

But we wanted to ask here for advice.

We dont have much experince in canoes, but a lot of experince in outdoor-life in genereal (hiking, sleeping in tent for long periods, things like this). So bad wheater and other challenges are not our concern - our concern is to pick the right route.

We were hoping to find a route, that would give us a little bit of everything. Small rivers, big lakes, small cities on the way and a lot of wilderness - and also some struggle. We dont want to just follow one big river (like the MacKenzie). And a route, where we could be on the go from the beginning of June and two months on-ward.

Anybody have any suggestions or tips on how to start planning a speciffic route? Any help and advice is higly appriciated. Any information that can help us come clooser to our dream

Best Regards,

Fredrik (24) and Jesper (24)

Welcome Fredrick,

Maybe the Hayes River?

https://www.cbc.ca/news/canada/manitoba ... -1.4269352

There are a number of possibilities in northern Saskatchewan that would meet most of your criteria. Look at maps and satellite images of the area to get a sense of what is possible. Churchill River Canoe Outfitters (CRCO) has a number of dated but still relevant Historic SK Route Info Booklets on their website: https://www.churchillrivercanoe.com/tri ... oklet.html
which could be used to give you some idea about what is possible. As you read through those trip reports be sure to have a map close by. You could plan a long trip based on linking a number of those routes together.
Ric Driediger at CRCO has written a book which could be helpful for planning a long trip in that area. https://gotrekkers.com/paddling-norther ... oe-routes/ That book is available through other sources.
Ric would also be able to help with planning and you can contact him through CRCO.
Have fun planning!

Hey guys! Thanks for the fast response. What a cool forum this is!

We were initially planning/dreaming of the North West Territories. But we are open for other areas as well.

Is, for example, the area you are speaking of Ralph, as remote as The North West territories? In sense of few people in the area?

If the answer is yes, then we would deffinitly look into it )

Hi Fredrik,
Northern Saskatchewan has some pockets of people, usually along the few roads in the area. The Northwest Territories has more areas that are more remote. Remoteness partially depends upon the route you choose.
Check out some maps and some satellite images.

You might consider Wabakimi Provincial Park and surrounding area in northern Ontario.
Contact Bruce at Wabakimi Outfitters for information.
I shuttled a solo paddler from Switzerland to the Park from Thunder Bay last summer. He did a month long trip that covered only a small portion of the park. Very remote with only a few flyin outposts and First Nations communities.

Hi Fredrik -

First let me say I envy you your age and your available time.

I think such a trip is possible. There are many routes in the NWT where camping experience and common sense,
rather than advanced paddling skills, are the primary requirements (although I would urge you to accumulate as much canoeing experience/skill as you can). Especially, skills like back ferrying and eddy turns so you can stop safely in current.

I think you have not had more comments yet because, as you say, the possibilities are endless and people don't know where to start. I think we need to narrow this down a bit.

First, I assume you will be bringing a folding expedition canoe (Ally or PakCanoe) with you. Trying to rent in the NWT for a trip like yours would add a lot of logistical complications.

It also sounds like you want to avoid aircraft charters (which have become increasingly expensive). Would you be open to a short flight, say $1000 or so, to start or finish a route?

Now, consider your start date. If you want to start on June 1 (paddling, not dragging) the Slave River might be your only option. Check out the EOSDIS website from June 1 last year for ice cover:

https://worldview.earthdata.nasa.gov/?v ... 3A18%3A16Z

From Slave River (which might be more conveniently reached from Ft. Smith NWT) the traditional route eastward went up Dog River to Leland Lakes - Star Lake - Tourangeau Lake - Tazin River upstream - turn north through Thekulthili Lake and River - Nonacho Lake, then east up the Taltson. From here there are many options.

If you were amenable to a mid-June start, options open up heading north from Great Slave - I would suggest a start up the Emile River from Behchoko. From the Emile's headwaters around Mesa and Grenville Lakes, many options are available, looping back southward or continuing to the Coppermine area.

It would also be useful to know what kind of country you would like to see. Do you want to spend most of your time in the forest, or on the tundra? Is fishing a big interest (although it is good almost anywhere)? Wildlife viewing?

Do you have any preference between a "loop" trip or a "point-to-point" route? I assume you want to end up somewhere with scheduled air service?

South of Great Slave, there will be no communities on your route. If you travel north of Great Slave, you might plan to pass through smaller Tlicho communities like Gameti, Weekweti, or Whati. I know people in the past have found these useful as resupply points - they are served by scheduled flights and freight can be shipped in at reasonable rates.

Such resupplies could make portaging more pleasant during the first part of your trip. Another way to deal with this might be starting out on a big lake - i.e. Yellowknife, and paddle east to Pike's portage, then head up to the Barrens. But ice can be an issue in the east end of Great Slave until the end of June, and the big Tundra lakes usually hold their ice until July.

Do you feel obliged to visit the Snowdrift River? It seems like kind of a pilgrimage for Norwegians - is it the same for Danes?

You say you don't want to "just" follow a big river like the Mackenzie. Would you be ok with doing part of the Mackenzie - i.e. from the Great Bear River down - as part of your route?

Anyway, think it over. One of the problems of paddling in the NWT (or elsewhere) is that as soon as you choose a route to paddle, you start to regret not paddling all the other routes you considered. It can't be helped. But I think your planning will go much better if you have at least a general idea of the route you want to do before year end.

I will be glad (as will others, I'm sure) to offer more specific suggestions and information at that time.

Best of luck,

jmc

Hi jmc and you other guys! Thank you for taking your time to write such a helpful replies!

I will try to narrow some things down. Really appreciate your time.

CHOICE OF CANOE

Our initially thoughts on choice of canoe where to buy a canoe on the spot or buying one online and ship it to our starting place/city. Like a “normal” canoe, not and Ally og PakCanoe. Then use it for our trip and try to sell it after the trip is done. The reason for this is that we are afraid to rip these foldable canoes, since we might not have much experience. We simply think that these regular canoes (made of polyethylene or royalex) are more durable. But we might be wrong. So we are reconsindering this - and are also open for suggestions.

FLY-IN

We are hoping to make the trip without a fly-in. But we are not completely saying no. If what we get out of it is worth the money (say a much better trip), we would consider it. But it is about money so far. If a nice trip can be planned without this cost, we are going for this. So we are mostly trying to avoid a fly-in and save the money.

STARTING DATE

As early as possible. But if options are better for a mid-june start, this is what we will do. So for the sake of narrowing down, let’s say we want to start in the middle of June and spend two months out there - and then be back in Denmark at the end of August latest. So mid-june to mid-august “out there” and then some time to get back.

LOOP OR POINT-TO-POINT

Here we have no preference. Only thing is, as you say jmc, that we end up in a place where we can either drive out or fly out. And maybe sell our canoe for a bear-skin

PASSING BY PLACES WITH POSSIBILITY TO RESUPPLY

This is something that we really think will be helpful to us. So this is kind of a thing that we are striving to plan for. To pass by places from time to time (does not have to be many places) so we can resupply easily. Both for the experience and for the convenience of not bringing everything we need at the beginning.

One question for this - is it possible to rely on buying what we need on the spot in these small communities /cities? Like food or other things or do we have to plan ahead and pre-ship/plan what we need at specific points?

DON'T FEEL OBLIGED TO SEE ANY SPECIFIC RIVER - not even snowdrift

For us it is enough to just do things in the same vast area as some of our heroes. Helge Ingstad, Lars Monsen and others. I am half Norwegian, so of course I know about this. But we just want the best possible route that suits our needs.

When I write we don't just want to follow one big river it is because we also want some of the challenging parts like portageing and other stuff. We are open to following, say McKenzie River for a long part - but not only this river. I’ve recently read a book by a Danish adventurist, who followed only the McKenzie river. To me it was not as interesting as some other books I've read. But for sure, yes, following one river for a long period of time is alright, like you say, from Great Bear River and down.

NATURE/COUNTRY

In general a mix of everything. Nothing specific. But some scenery changes during the trip would be nice. Maybe not only tundra. We are both fond of the forest. When it comes to fishing, this is pretty important to us. But we also have the feeling that whereever we go, fishing would not be too bad - at least not for the entire trip. But fishing is quite important to us. We want to live as much of the land as we can.

My friend is also a hunter. But we didn't check the rules for this yet - and it is not a priority for us. But if possible, he would like to shoot birds once in a while.


Really good advice!!!

We will look at the options you mentioned jmc, and try to make it more specific for ourselves.

“From Slave River (which might be more conveniently reached from Ft. Smith NWT) the traditional route eastward went up Dog River to Leland Lakes - Star Lake - Tourangeau Lake - Tazin River upstream - turn north through Thekulthili Lake and River - Nonacho Lake, then east up the Taltson. From here there are many options.”

“I would suggest a start up the Emile River from Behchoko. From the Emile's headwaters around Mesa and Grenville Lakes, many options are available, looping back southward or continuing to the Coppermine area.”

This is really helpful. To get a route down in points and bits. Thank you!


We just ordered a big scale paper map for the area. Hopefully this can help is narrow it down together with satellite photos. We both struggle with only seeing it on screen.

So we will look and take you advice or narrowing things down the following period of time. And then maybe ask some follow-up questions later on.

But if you/you guys have anything to add already now, after I tried to be more specific, we would really appreciate it.

Thank you for the advice so far

Best Regards,

Fredrik and Jesper

My tripping, waterway experience and knowledge is limited to Saskatchewan and Yukon; looking forward to reading what others have to say about NWT. My longest trips have been 2 weeks; I’m jealous of your plan. I might add a few general points though.

I’ve used floatplane charters and point to point routes because time is always an issue for me. I only dream of having the time to ascend one river system, traverse to another, descend and again traverse to my starting location, something that is certainly doable within 2 months, will be physically challenging, will cost less $ and provide the satisfaction of doing it without mechanical energy, if that’s something you value.

Regarding equipment, my only experience is with Royalex and Kevlar hulls, which are well known to be up to the task. I can see a place for pack boats, as an international traveler wanting the security of their own boat in a foreign country or for loading onto small floatplanes. If it can be done, I suspect you’ll be happier travelling in a solid hull tripping canoe. I would caution however that canoes have been very difficult to purchase in the last few years. It is exceedingly unlikely you will rock up and buy on the spot. If you started now, you might be able to purchase one from an outfitter or dealer in the neighbourhood of your start point or elsewhere in the country. Standard rental rates are $200-$500/week depending on location so you probably are financially better off to purchase a boat and even sell it for a song when you leave. You may find you don’t have or can’t practically fly internationally with other pieces of equipment such as barrels, bear deterrents, fire boxes, tarps, straps, paddles, etc. Canoe trips seem so cheap on an annual basis with just the cost of groceries and gas but if you add up all the gear purchases, they are quite expensive. Also, realize that public transportation in Western Canada and in the North in particular is non existent. You will need to arrange to move yourself and your gear from your major airport of entry to your start point.

Before you hone your plans further, I’d also advise a sober assessment of your fitness, skills and expectations. On flatwater, novice paddlers might move a tripping canoe at 3-4 km/hr while experienced and fit paddlers might move 5-6 km/hr or perhaps more, these numbers being reduced by portaging, complex rapid scouting/running, against current paddling, storms, unfavourable winds, etc. Planned contingency days are prudent and for me anyway, some rest days (fishing, hiking, reading, whatever). You can easily paddle 60-80 km/day on the Yukon River but along the drop pool rivers of SK and NWT, daily progress will likely be in the 15-30 km range depending upon fitness and skill... unless you're planning a marathon approach.

Craig

Fredrik -

I just wanted to comment on Craig's reply. He makes some very good points.

Canoe availability is not good in Canada right now. The chances of showing up and finding a canoe suitable for an expedition such as you are planning immediately available are probably not good, even in a major centre like Yellowknife, and would probably be near zero in a small community like Ft. Chipewyan. In Yellowknife, you could contact Overlander Sports

https://overlandersports.com/

or Jack Pine Paddle

https://jackpinepaddle.com/canoe-kayak- ... llowknife/

To get an idea of the situation for sales and rentals.

I have always paddled rigid hulls, but have friends who regularly do long NWT trips in Allys and PakCanoes. See for example:

https://northof60.de/

I have heard of one couple who flew to Yellowknife, bought a Coleman (now Pelican) recreational canoe and paddled the Back River with it; but I don't think this would be my first planning option:

https://www.rayjardine.com/adventures/1 ... /index.php

Craig's comments about what you can't fly with (commercially) - bear spray, stove fuel, etc. are also true: you will need to ensure you can get them at your starting point. A friend once cooked with fire on his trip because the small community he flew into was out of Coleman fuel (white gas). Canister gas fuel is not widely available in small communities.

As Craig says, public transportation is basically non-existent in the north.

I agree with Craig's mileage figures: I generally assume 20 km/ day for travel in the NWT shield country. A useful approach might be to choose a route with options - to lengthen it or shorten it - depending on how things are going.

Good luck with you researches. Note you can download for free copies of all Canadian topographic maps here:

https://ftp.maps.canada.ca/pub/nrcan_rn ... pographic/

There are other options for online maps, like Caltopo.

- jmc

Just a word on folding boats. I own a Royalex tandem but have paddled Pakboats on the Hayes and the Kazan. They have a few peculiarities, but are as durable as hard shell boats and will give you a lot more options for route selection. They are made of the same material as rafts and the skin is easy to patch -- probably easier that a hard shell boat. I've never severely bent the frame so I can't comment on that, but I would not really be worried about it. I definitely would avoid polypropylene because of the weight and generally poor hull forms of poly boats.

I've done some fly-in with inflatables canoes (as well as folding and hard-shell).
It's another alternative. Slow as molasses on the flats, but fun in rapids....

You have picked the right country for your trip as well as the right wilderness canoeing forum to ask your questions.

You have mentioned good idols.

It maybe difficult to truly grasp the extent of the Canadian wilderness North. Depending on your route, one can canoe for two months without seeing people or a community. Or you may only see a couple of paddlers. The North has been popular for paddlers because of the wilderness and its vastness but also because it is interconnected by water. Sometimes there are too many route choices.

Far north paddlers typically use hard shell canoes (Royalex and Kevlar expedition layup) or folding canoes (Ally and Pakboats/Pakcanoes).

The vast majority of my Far North canoe trips have started in July, not in June. Starting in June is not a bad idea but your route choice must take that into consideration as you want to mindful of frozen lakes/ice. Starting in the northern area of Saskatchewan, Manitoba, etc. could be a viable options. The northern regions of the provinces an offer excellent wilderness canoe tripping country that warms up earlier than the NWT.

As jmc said, Ft Smith is the place that came to my mind.

As a route planning guide, I'd suggest using a distance of 1000 km as a good place to start when looking at route options.

Some communities/hamlets have cheaper commercial airline tickets than others. For example, Kugluktuk to Yellowknife is much cheaper than Baker Lake to Winnipeg.

Hunting birds, ducks, upland game, deer, moose, caribou, bear, etc. seems to be more of a fall activity. You would have to look into hunting season, rules and regulations, etc.

Gain as much canoeing skills as possible before hand but judgment and knowing your limits are most important once you are on your trip, especially in the far north, as a single canoe, with cold water temperatures, etc.

I admire your youthful age, your desire to seek a long wilderness experience and your mindfulness to also seek out advice.

Don’t hesitate to ask anything about your trip...there is much experience on the forum.

_________________
Brian
http://www.JohnstonPursuits.ca

 

A few thoughts:

1) logistics may restrict your route selection and may sway you to choose a route outside of NWT (float plane routes vs road shuttle routes) but there a very amazing wilderness tripping opportunities in Northern Quebec, Northwest Ontario, Eastern Manitoba, Northern Manitoba, Northern Saskatchewan, Northern BC, Yukon. Some very remote wilderness trips can be staged from populated areas. Wherever you decide to paddle, you'll enjoy it and probably inspire someone else to follow in your footsteps as you heroes did to you.

2) if you can make a NWT trip work, it would certainly be worth it, but there may be extra costs and extra work researching/planning

3) a route closer to bigger city could allow you to purchase a canoe ahead of time and arrange for storage

4) splitting your time in Canada may be your best option. There are many shockingly beautiful wilderness routes relatively near places like Winnipeg and Missinipe where you could arrange for some moving water instruction. Example: arrive in Winnipeg in early June. Take a moving water course (Brian - Paddle Power - is a fantastic instructor). Paddle a short wilderness river like the Manigotagan (3-7 days). Reset and resupply. Paddle an extended MB river trip (Bloodvein and Berens, Hayes River, etc). Rick at Churchill Outfitters in Missinipe would likely have similar options in northern Saskatchewan. There may be opportunities to do the same in Whitehorse or Yellowknife.

I mention inflatables because Grabner for example are made in Germany and might be more available than other options and are worth looking into.