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PostPosted: June 5th, 2021, 8:17 pm 
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from the man who walked the walk:

excerpt from pg 133, Bullock's Letters from the Barren Lands: "I am afraid that this life causes one to adopt the improvident attitude of the Indian after a while. Often we have eaten our last morsel at an unnecessary feast, and left the morrow to take care of itself. We are satisfied that something will always turn up, so have ceased to worry.


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PostPosted: July 26th, 2021, 9:45 am 
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I think an argument could be made that there were significant and meaningful similarities between Hornby and Downes

1. Both were relatively short.
2. Both liked to be known as "hard travelers"
3. Both preferred to travel with "Indians" rather than whites.
4. Both were competent maps makers.
5. Both admired Douglas. A tall man who was not a "hard traveler"

A singular difference was Downes' coherent written legacy.


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PostPosted: July 28th, 2021, 12:21 am 
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[For as accurate details as we shall ever have concerning Douglas’s association with Hornby and other points about Hornby raised by Downes, see Whalley, 1962.1

http://pubs.aina.ucalgary.ca/arctic/Arctic39-2-164.pdf
**********************************************************
"George Douglas was inclined to regard Hornby as feckless unless under firm direction, and in temperament and habits very different from themselves, nevertheless there was a genuine friendship and respect between them."

pg 72 The Legend of John Hornby - George Whalley


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PostPosted: July 28th, 2021, 2:13 pm 
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One of the things I like about Hornby was that he seemed like he just wanted to be there, in the North and the Barrens, for no other reason than just to be there. He wasn't there trying to make money by trapping, mineral exploration, or surveying like so many others who seemed to view it has a short term adventure/money making business, something to do and then return to civilization with stories. He didn't seem to be happy anywhere else and only got into trapping and mineral exploration when he had to get the money to get himself outfitted again. And even then he didn't seem to take those other tasks very seriously.

As a result the people who were mainly interested in those other ventures found him a frustrating person to work with/rely on.

He's someone who I think it would have been fascinating to meet and spend some time with but not someone I would have wanted to go tripping with.

Alan


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PostPosted: July 29th, 2021, 6:42 pm 
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not even a short one? in the summer of course.


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PostPosted: July 30th, 2021, 11:04 am 
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david demello wrote:
not even a short one? in the summer of course.


Maybe a short one. He strikes me as someone who followed his own whims and desires without a lot of consideration for those he's tripping with. Obviously in the end, when the chips were down and things were serious, he bent over backwards and seemed willing to sacrifice himself for his companions. If things went really wrong I think he'd be someone you could rely on but when things were going right, or just a little wrong, I think his wandering whims and desires could get very frustrating.

Alan


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PostPosted: July 30th, 2021, 9:01 pm 
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in lieu of an actual experience with Hornby perhaps a close review of those that did have interactions with this notorious figure. And we also would have the comments of those who opined on those that did. Then, of course, we have another group reviewing all that came before. What a tangled web we will weave.


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PostPosted: August 4th, 2021, 10:28 pm 
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Square this Circle:



P.G. Downes journal

"Hornby & Bullock never hit it off at all. Bullock’s diary was read by Douglas and is full of invective against Hornby."

http://pubs.aina.ucalgary.ca/arctic/Arctic39-2-164.pdf

***********************************************

The Legend of John Hornby, Whalley Pg 222

" On this Bullock occasion, Bullock noted that Glenn tried "to prejudice me against H[ornby]." And it was in a letter to Glenn almost three years later that Bullock wrote most loyally about Hornby. 'I bear him no ill wishes, in fact, I would willingly go through all the old hardships again if I thought I could do anything for him... I trust that you will never speak unkindly of him. Hornby was the bravest man I ever knew, and the finest friend that any man ever had on a backwoods trail. Out in the bush, Hornby was the real Hornby and [a] better man never lived.'


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PostPosted: August 5th, 2021, 1:38 pm 
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david demello wrote:
Square this Circle:



P.G. Downes journal

"Hornby & Bullock never hit it off at all. Bullock’s diary was read by Douglas and is full of invective against Hornby."

http://pubs.aina.ucalgary.ca/arctic/Arctic39-2-164.pdf

***********************************************

The Legend of John Hornby, Whalley Pg 222

" On this Bullock occasion, Bullock noted that Glenn tried "to prejudice me against H[ornby]." And it was in a letter to Glenn almost three years later that Bullock wrote most loyally about Hornby. 'I bear him no ill wishes, in fact, I would willingly go through all the old hardships again if I thought I could do anything for him... I trust that you will never speak unkindly of him. Hornby was the bravest man I ever knew, and the finest friend that any man ever had on a backwoods trail. Out in the bush, Hornby was the real Hornby and [a] better man never lived.'


The journal entries were a real time account of how and what Bullock felt at the time, whether it was justified or not.

The letter written years later by Bullock in defense of Hornby is after the rough edges of discomfort and ill humor have been rounded off with the bad parts of the memory pushed to the rear and the good memories coming forward. I think we can all relate to being absolutely miserable and then then later looking back on the situation with some fondness.

Downes' statement of Douglas' opinion is third hand (Bullocks's journal>Douglas>Downes) so can't be completely relied upon. Thankfully we have Bullock's journals to form our own opinions.

At least that's how I square it.

Alan


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PostPosted: August 6th, 2021, 8:26 am 
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"Hornby & Bullock never hit it off at all. Bullock’s diary was read by Douglas and is full of invective against Hornby."

The above statement is a conclusion made by Downes (albeit in a diary) using Douglas as an authority. That is difficult to accept. I am waiting on a readable copy of Douglas' 'Land Forlorn'. Distilling the complex into the simple loses information. And doing it under the cloak of authority is very troublesome to me. And without references! makes for a less than compelling argument.


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PostPosted: August 6th, 2021, 10:46 am 
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Location: Burns Lake, BC
It seems a shame that older posts that have actual facts (prices of boats that are sold, then the thread is deleted) are deleted yet this thread of personal communication and interpretation is allowed to run on forever.

Why don't you two start private messaging? It seems like that would be much more appropriate.
It seems like you're bringing facebook qualities (hollow posts and constant rambling) to this wonderful site.
22,000 views aren't from other people... it's just you two or maybe even one!

So now just an ignorant question... how much bandwidth/space does this thread eat up compared to the used boat that was sold and then the thread deleted.


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PostPosted: August 6th, 2021, 11:52 am 
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I can only say that as a result of some of these threads I've been exposed to a lot of people, history, books, and resources that I never knew existed and that I've found very interesting. I assume at least a few other people have as well.

I get very tired of bear threads, knife threads, and tent threads but they keep happening and I'm not going to complain about them, I'm just not going to read them.

I agree to an extent about classified ads being deleted.

Alan


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PostPosted: August 6th, 2021, 4:08 pm 
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"prices of boats that are sold" versus "hollow posts and constant rambling" ????

"22,000 views aren't from other people... it's just you two or maybe even one!" ????

"how much bandwidth/space does this thread eat up compared to the used boat that was sold and then the thread deleted." It is my opinion that (bandwidth/space) would depend upon the demands made upon the individual issue by the public.

I would like to invite CanoeheadTed to support his claim: "22,000 views aren't from other people... it's just you two or maybe even one!" Evidence would be welcome but not required.


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PostPosted: August 6th, 2021, 11:02 pm 
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No thank you.


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PostPosted: August 7th, 2021, 12:48 am 
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Canoeheadted "No thank you."

You're welcome.

Now, where was I? I guess that it is important that I know where I am. An 80-year-old cripple trying to revive fading memories. I remember a conversation about canoeing with Goerge Luste when he enigmatically said "We're all tourists." We create bubble universes constructed with vanities and pretenses and tough it out from ice out to freeze up and it is our really real. I just don't see that as a platform from which to approach John Hornby.


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