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PostPosted: September 8th, 2005, 12:01 pm 
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Received my RoadBikeRider.com newsletter today which contained the following:
Quote:
---If you already own a rain jacket made with a breathable material, Atsko Corp.'s Sport Wash helps restore its durable water-repellent (DWR) coating. Sport Wash is a biodegradable vegetable surfactant that leaves no residue, according to a test at Clemson University that compared it to Tide liquid detergent. After just one laundry cycle, cotton garments washed in Tide gained 1% weight and 2% after 8 washings. The increase was attributed to perfumes and color enhancers left by Tide (and presumably other commercial laundry soaps). These inhibit DWR function by up to 50% and can encourage retention of body odor. Garments laundered in Sport Wash did not gain weight. We tested 4 bike jackets with Sport Wash as directed. It worked quite well as a cleaner and noticeably helped the DWR function.
http://www.atsko.com

Has anyone on this site used this soap? Care to share your thoughts?
These are the same people who make Sno-Seal and many other outdoor products.
A Google search shows that Nature Canada recommends and sells it.
Thanks,
GG


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PostPosted: September 8th, 2005, 1:31 pm 
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For one GoreTex and similar waterproof breathables are supposed to be washed in soap and not detergents. The hang tag indicates care instructions in detail. The problem is that most people never read the hangtag put pn the garment by WL Gore. The label care instructios are sometimes not so specific.
.

Detergents chiefly leave residue in the micropores of GoreTex.

The DWR(durable water repellent) finish is a surface finish and is used on fabrics also that do not have a waterproof breathable membrane. It abrades off naturally through wear but machine washing is a mechanical action that helps erode it. Soap usually does not restore DWR ; however a warm (not HOT) iron may improve older DWRs function temporarily. DWR has to be restored by applying more DWR (one product is Nikwax) and detergent does accelerate DWR degradation.

I use Ivory Soap Flakes to wash techie garments. Were Clemson to test Ivory versus Tide I bet they would have similar results. BTW this result seems to be directed at the GoreTex crowd yet the test was performed on DWR coated cotton and not Goretex. I think a better comparison to study the DWR "restoration" would be to compare the performance of Sport Wash versus Ivory Soap. Then we are comparing apples to apples..

Sport Wash sounds like atomized olive oil!.


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PostPosted: September 8th, 2005, 1:33 pm 
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Location: Canmore AB
Gerald: Sport wash has been around for a few years but I don't have any personal experience with it.
In another life I was a rep for Nikwax. They sell a similar product, Tech Wash for technical garments with Goretex Entrant,Hyvent, etc (anything with a DWR).
The rationale is that it is a liquid soap and leaves no residue behind on the garment after washing. Detergents leave behind a residue as found in that study. The concern perhaps is not the weight gain but these particles left behind attract dirt and water and therefore a garment washed in detergent will get dirty quicker than one washed in Tech wash/sportwash as well as 'wet out' more quickly.

One solution to washing with detergent is to put your garment through a second rinse cycle to help reduce the residue.

A comment on DWR. (Durable water repellancy) DWR treatment is applied to material before it is cut into a garment. It is applied with heat. That is why most manufacturers IE TNF Marmot, etc tell you to throw the piece in the dryer after washing. It helps redistribute the DWR and water will bead up on the jacket again.
Just read Kim's response and will add: Washing cleans a garment but does not restore DWR Cleaning however does allow the DWR to work better (splitting hairs I know). I agree the DWR does degrade with use and washing,due to nomal wear and tear and well as abrasion of the material.

Hugh

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"Twenty years from now you will be more disappointed by the things that you didn't do than by the ones you did do. So throw off the bowlines. sail away from the safe harbor. Catch the trade winds in your sails. Explore. Dream. Discover."
M.T.


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PostPosted: September 8th, 2005, 3:17 pm 
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Location: Tillsonburg, Ontario Canada
Hugh

Do you still use Nikwax products ( ie TX, polarproof etc ) to renew DWR or have you found something you like better?

I have used/use Nikwax products for cleaning, DWR, Footwear, and maps. Have never used the stuff for rope, but have been thinking about it. I have noticed that alot of my nylon cord seems to like water.....

Thank-you

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michael


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PostPosted: September 8th, 2005, 3:38 pm 
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I use Nikwax products exclusively as I havent found anything better. That doesnt mean there isnt anything better. Thats why I am interested in this product as I am aware that washing itself really doesnt rejuvenate DWR to a degree that I can tell even after a trip in the dryer

About once a day I get a question from a customer about their "failing Goretex". Almost always its the DWR that is gone and as thats a gradual process its just become an increasing annoyance until one day its unbearable and then they call in to voice a comment. It is nice to have a one step product (maybe this Sport Wash will prove to be useful) such as Tech Wash.

Hugh I have a question for you. I have used Tech Wash and it seems to apply the DWR inside the garment too. To me that doesnt seem appropriate as I want my sweat vapor to travel out.

It seems to be more sensible to wash in soap and then to apply the DWR to the outer surface only via the spray on Nikwax product. This seems to work really well, but it is a two step process..


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PostPosted: September 8th, 2005, 4:12 pm 
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"Hugh I have a question for you. I have used Tech Wash and it seems to apply the DWR inside the garment too. To me that doesnt seem appropriate as I want my sweat vapor to travel out. "
Kim
I assume you mean the TX direct wash in. and the concern that by putting a DWR on the lining causes a problem . Nikawax has found that washing in a DWR onto the lining it makes the lining more hydrophobic than it is naturally and increases the H20 vapour transport through the material away from your body. All Tech Wash does is clean.
Mykel I still use Nikwax but I've strayed :) to Graingers a few times. Graingers seems to work as well IMHO. I confess to buying what the store has in at the time. My wash cupboard has both products in it right now. Gore has their own version of DWR restorer called Revivex (sp). I've never used it.
Good idea about the Rope Proof. Never even thought of it for anything other than climbing.
Hugh

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"Twenty years from now you will be more disappointed by the things that you didn't do than by the ones you did do. So throw off the bowlines. sail away from the safe harbor. Catch the trade winds in your sails. Explore. Dream. Discover."
M.T.


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PostPosted: September 8th, 2005, 7:26 pm 
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Yep Hugh... I forgot to go to the closet and read the bottles and the names on them!

Its interesting that the washin product actually increases water vapour transport through the lining which is often nylon taffeta.

Its more convenient. I use whatever is cheapest and its TX direct wash or the spray on Nikwax DWR at the moment. At full price its certainly not cheap though! (I get a forty percent discount when I am working)


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