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PostPosted: January 15th, 2016, 3:46 pm 
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This is my first post on this forum. I'd like to introduce the Caribou S, a new solo canoe.

Clipper Canoes has recently launched the Caribou S. I designed this canoe, and I would be happy to answer questions about the boat.

The Caribou S started life several years ago as the Peach, here in Calgary, Alberta. It's a solo canoe that is made for the larger paddler. It's an all-round solo tripper that slightly favours the river. It's a good load-carrier with full ends, yet it paddles easily, with good speed.

http://www.clippercanoes.com/caribou-s/

You can view the Caribou S on the Clipper Canoes website. My name is Lloyd.


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PostPosted: January 15th, 2016, 8:41 pm 
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Location: Collingwood Ontario
The hull appears to be symmetrical for and aft, is it?
What were the design considerations in putting the seat aft of centre? Won't the trim be wrong if there is no load but the paddler?

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PostPosted: January 15th, 2016, 10:39 pm 
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Location: Rattlesnake Pond ME
Look at the pictures of the boat heeled over almost to the rail and see how the bow and stern are both out of the water pretty much equally.

Usually solo seats front edge is about 8 inches aft of center, Maybe a little less for the dedicated sit and switch boat . But this is also for the kneeler on a river. You need that eight inches in order not to weight the bow too much when kneeling.

If you are fatter, you might need 10 inches from center to front of seat. Leaner, less.


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PostPosted: January 16th, 2016, 4:07 am 
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Shearjoy-- yes, the Caribou S is symmetrical. The seat on this solo is mounted with the leading edge 5 inches aft of centre-- which is pretty typical for a symmetrical solo. For weight and balance considerations in canoes, the paddler's weight is generally considered to be located at the front edge of the seat.

In general I agree with the comments of littleredcanoe.

There is some difference in the location of the paddler's centre of mass between sit-and-switch (feet forward on the foot rest) and kneeling with both knees spread apart, but it's negligible. My objective is to have the canoe's C of G slightly aft in both paddling positions with just the paddler and no gear (I am happy with about 1 inch difference between bow and stern).


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PostPosted: January 16th, 2016, 8:47 am 
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Location: Rattlesnake Pond ME
Looks like a fun solo to try out.. What is the cross section hull shape? Where is the widest point in relation to the waterline?

Out East ( US ) we never see Clipper canoes, which is a shame!


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PostPosted: January 16th, 2016, 10:53 pm 
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Max width on the Caribou S is at the 6" waterline. To get an idea of how the cross-section looks at Station 0, have a look at the Rushton Indian from 1901-- it's similar to that, but with a slightly flatter shallow ellipse. Those Rushton canoes from the first few years of the 20th Century are stunningly beautiful.


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PostPosted: January 17th, 2016, 8:35 am 
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Thanks. So typically paddlers pack to the four inch waterline so there is still two inches of flare above that. Undoubtedly that helps with secondary stability. For my paddling style, I like to heel the boat over.. judiciously, with pack.. With abandon to the rail with no packs


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PostPosted: January 17th, 2016, 10:52 am 
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Location: Thunder Bay, Ontario Canada
Thanks PC for the link. I am always looking for a large capacity composite solo for long trips often on big water and moving water (20-30 days usually). I have not yet found the right boat for me. I have been paddling small prospectors for years and really find these almost optimal for my long trips, but I am looking to downsize in weight for the portages as I get older.

I am wondering about the thwart's factory placement, and ability to fit in a 60L barrel cross ways or length ways fore and aft. I like the ability for several pack placement arrangements, but I paddle a small tandem prospector with enough beam to do that in front of the center thwart/yoke.
For a 30L barrel, it looks like there are several options, but without more dimensions to go by, the 60L barrel looks like a challenge?

As you know a 60L barrel filled with food and cook kit is very heavy. 30 days of food, at 2 pounds per day dry, is 60 lb's before the weight of the barrel and harness (about 8 pounds), cook kit, etc. So at a 30 day trip start you are looking at maybe 70 pounds. My 60 L barrel is about 25" long, and 16" diameter at the lid, wider in the middle (unknown width, but I am sure you are familiar with barrels). Looking at the photos on the Clipper website, it looks a little tight/not possible to get the barrel cross ways in front of the paddler with enough room for legs, camera gear, small day pack with stuff you want at hand, etc).

It also looks a little tight to go length wise in front of the paddler with that front thwart, without putting that heavy barrel too far forward for trim I don't know how heavy my gear pack is that would go behind me in the boat.
The heavy barrel length wise behind the paddler is an option, but that's alot of weight back there for trim issues.

Any thoughts on weight capacity and the 60L barrel placement, thwart moving, etc? Are there any increment widths across the gunwales (say, every 6 inches of length?), for the length of the boat that you could share?

Also the page states there is an option for a removable yoke, but the accessories link is not working, and I could not find it.

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PostPosted: January 17th, 2016, 1:16 pm 
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Hoop's points about cargo loading are well taken. On my trips (3 weeks) I carry a large Ostrom Wabikimi pack and a smaller Sealine for clothes and sleeping bag. Last summer, the Wabakimi weighed 60 pounds more than the Sealine. So setting up a tripping boat to have level trim with only the paddler in it means that I will never attain level trim with my load. Maybe the most a manufacturer can do is set up the outfitting so it can be easily modified to suit the buyer's needs, for the length and style of tripping they prefer. As my trips are fairly portage intensive, I also prefer a permanent yoke installation.

For remote trips I would like to see the kevlar/duraflex layup as an option, and also the option to omit the float bags to make room for short end bags.

For me, this is very close to the "right" hull design, but the seat / thwart placement would need to be altered substantially to make it work.

-jmc


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PostPosted: January 17th, 2016, 2:33 pm 
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Proper loading is always a serious consideration, and moving from tripping in a two-seater to a solo requires some re-thinking. A heavy 60L barrel that rode happily between the seats of a two-seater can't be simply dropped into the back of a solo boat-- that weight will have to be divided, with some of it moved forward; the solo kit needs to be considered differently than that of a 2-seater.

A permanent yoke doesn't work in a solo boat because it would be located right at the front of the seat. Lightweight, removable yokes are available from canoe makers, and Cliff Jacobson has a nice design for one in his Solo Tripping book. Also, he offers many good tips on loads and packs for a solo.

After tripping in solos for many years, and moving thwarts and seats-- this is the best placement of seat and thwarts I could make. I don't carry any gear in the paddler's station as I like to move around a lot to stay comfortable. Any canoe, however, should be modified to suit the paddler-- that's perfectly normal. I have modified many store-bought canoes.

If you are happy with any canoe in its empty configuration, and you find it a joy to paddle, it's better to alter your tripping packs than alter the canoe to suit the containers. I actually spend many more hours paddling empty than actually tripping-- but you're right, you've got to be satisfied with the tripping 'system'; after all this is a tripper-- and you do what you have to do to make it work.

The 60L barrel fits easily behind the aft thwart on the Caribou S-- you could drop it in sideways too, but it's best oriented fore and aft.

All of the major curved sections on the Caribou S are perfect circle segments: sheer line, gunwale spread, max width etc. You can make a scale drawing of the gunwales of the Caribou S (viewed from above-- Plan Form) to examine outfitting and pack-sizing. The gunwales viewed from above are segments from a 54-foot circle, or two 27-foot radius arcs intersecting at 15' 5" in space, just past the stems. The max spread at centre is 27". You can scale this down to inches or millimetres to make it work on a couple of sheets of paper.


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PostPosted: January 19th, 2016, 2:22 pm 
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Location: Manitoba
For solo paddling I have taken to my Blue Hole Sunburst, with it's solo yoke and slightly aft kneeling thwart. Not only do I enjoy the hull shape on the water but I also like portaging it as it is set up so that it goes stern first with the kneeling thwart within reach for easy balancing forward and aft as required.
It would be easy enough to replace the kneeling thwart with a traditional bench style canoe seat.
I find the permanent yoke better/simpler than my removable carrying yokes I use with some of my other canoes.

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PostPosted: January 19th, 2016, 2:50 pm 
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That sounds like a nice setup. Everybody will find what's comfortable for themselves and adapt the canoe to suit; the positioning of seats from the manufacturer is an average location for an average paddler, yielding an average balance. The end user will modify to suit her/himself.


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PostPosted: January 19th, 2016, 10:11 pm 
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Peach Canoe wrote:

All of the major curved sections on the Caribou S are perfect circle segments: sheer line, gunwale spread, max width etc. You can make a scale drawing of the gunwales of the Caribou S (viewed from above-- Plan Form) to examine outfitting and pack-sizing. The gunwales viewed from above are segments from a 54-foot circle, or two 27-foot radius arcs intersecting at 15' 5" in space, just past the stems. The max spread at centre is 27". You can scale this down to inches or millimetres to make it work on a couple of sheets of paper.


Hmmm...I guess the answer is "no" then, you will not be providing the measurements of widths across the gunwales in 6 inch increments? I don't think I will do that math because I will likely make a mistake. The photos on the website do not look to me like its a "perfect" circle segment either. Looks less arced towards the stems, more arced towards the center. I placed a ruler straight edge on the image along the bow and stern gunwale segments of the photo below to form a tangent, and the tangent angles are definitely different close to the ends than the middle. Try it yourself. The photo does not show a "perfect" circle circumference along that gunwale line.

Image

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PostPosted: January 20th, 2016, 2:15 am 
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Hoop
I apologize for not adding the 6" increments as you requested. Here they are measured directly off one of my early proof hulls. The measurements are from hull skin to hull skin-- gunwale dimensions vary, so I don't include them. Typically, inner gunwales are about 1/2" aside.

Starting at centre and going toward a stem, they are roughly as follows in inches:

Centre or 0"... 27+"
6 ................... 27
12 ................. 26.7
18 ................. 26.2
24 ................. 25.5
30 ................. 24.6
36 ................. 23.5
42 ................. 22
48 ................. 20.4
54 ................. 18.4
60 ................. 16
66 ................. 13.5
72 ................. 11
78 ................. 7.7
84 ................. 4.5

The aft thwart is 21" aft of centre and the front thwart is 28.5" forward of centre.

I assure you the planform gunwales of this model are in fact segments of perfect circles. I drew the lines, made the prototype, made the plug, and made the mould.

It's possible to alter the the gunwale planform subtly when installing gunwales, thwarts, seats, decks, and flotation tanks-- but I don't think that's the case-- Clipper's work is First Class! The photo, however, does look a little skewed.

I hope this helps; if you have other questions, I will strive to answer in a more timely manner.


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PostPosted: January 21st, 2016, 11:39 am 
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Location: Manitoba
I have to agree that the shape and dimensions of the Caribou S look better than a small prospector canoe for extended solo canoe tripping.
I assume the S stands for Solo.
As jmc mentioned, for extended tripping a kevlar/duraflex layup would be nice. I like my current kevlar/duraflex solo Clipper a lot. The hull has held up very well.

Peach Canoe, I'm curious on how to draw the arcs assuming I'm using a letter or legal sized graph paper and I want to maximize the size of the canoe on the page. Would the circle centre not be located a long way off the page? Is there another simple way to create the arcs? I'm thinking I once knew how...

If I was in the market for a new solo tripping canoe, I'd would consider asking for an empty or partial empty hull and then installing the seat, yoke, and thwarts where they work for me. I'd start with a centre yoke, aft of centre seat, and then put the big heavy pack forward and the smaller lighter pack aft, and finally install the thwarts. Might be easiest to get the yoke and seat preinstalled as placement is pretty straight forward and the seat might be more difficult to do at home than in the factory install because of the way Clipper seats install. The thwart installation would be easy to do at after market/at home.

Congratulations on the Caribou S! It's got us talking about solo canoes.

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