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PostPosted: July 17th, 2018, 8:54 pm 
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Joined: June 28th, 2008, 2:06 pm
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Location: GTA
I had a spill last year and my barrel was floating around for a few minutes on its side.

When I got into camp that night, I realised there was around 1L of water in the bottom of it, and much of what was inside had been made damp or wet.

I know that barrels seem to have a neoprene "seal," but is it really designed to keep the barrel water tight?

Last year I posted a similar question in this thread: http://www.myccr.com/phpbbforum/viewtop ... 20&t=30453

I've been considering "fixing" mine by using silicone, as was mentioned as a solution in that thread above, but I began to think about it and it wouldn't seem that they're really waterproof since otherwise changes in atmospheric pressure would cause them to bulge out or suck in.


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PostPosted: July 17th, 2018, 9:22 pm 
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Joined: July 21st, 2004, 7:58 pm
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Well, yours obviously wasn't waterproof. The seal may be defective. It is also possible that at some point the lid got switched with another barrel with a slightly different diameter. It's good to mark you lid to make sure that it doesn't get interchanged.

As to atmospheric pressure affecting barrels -- you should see what they look like when they come off air freight! Getting the lids off can be a little difficult.

My barrels have seen a lot of water (paddling was sometimes less than perfect) -- they have never leaked.


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PostPosted: July 17th, 2018, 10:57 pm 
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Peter K. wrote:
you should see what they look like when they come off air freight! Getting the lids off can be a little difficult.


Indeed, that lid is sucked on tight and I need a screwdriver or something to break the seal - the sound of the air rushing is neat too.

I have never had a barrel leak myself.


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PostPosted: July 18th, 2018, 4:23 am 
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Joined: January 3rd, 2010, 5:59 pm
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Location: Kanata
My barrel is from 1992, has been in the water many times and has never leaked. I do think that some barrels are inferior to others and have thought that they have let a bit of water in, though never 1 litre in a couple of minutes.

rab


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PostPosted: July 18th, 2018, 8:14 am 
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Joined: July 9th, 2001, 7:00 pm
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Location: Cambridge, Ontario
A few years ago we unpinned a boat on the Lievre with sealine bags and barrels strapped in and submerged. The boat had been there for over a week. The contents of the barrels were completely dry. The bags completely soaked. If properly sealed 5hey work.


Some lids dont match up good. I've used the wrong lid on a barrel and had it leak. Now I test them before trips by filling the barrel with water and seeing if any leaks out with the lid sealed.


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PostPosted: July 18th, 2018, 11:14 am 
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Joined: June 28th, 2001, 7:00 pm
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Location: Freeland, Maryland USA
DougB wrote:
Some lids dont match up good. I've used the wrong lid on a barrel and had it leak. Now I test them before trips by filling the barrel with water and seeing if any leaks out with the lid sealed.


A couple years ago I decided to leak test all of our hardsided “waterproof” containers and did much the same experiment, filling them half way up with water and turning them upside down. The results:

Our 2.5 and 5 gallon buckets with screw top gasketed lids all leaked. Every one of them. Originally used to store laboratory salts, now relegated to household bucket and pail use. Like these:

https://www.uline.com/Product/Detail/S- ... lsrc=aw.ds

Cur-tec wide neck drums in various sizes. Every single one was bone dry. I really like those containers, nice packing shape and the 3 gallon (_) Cur-tec somehow looks smaller than a 2.5 gallon \_/ pail. These:

https://www.curtec.com/en/products/drum ... neck-drums

Pelican boxes (actually Mil-spec boxes made by Pelican). Not a drop. These

https://colemans.com/shop/containers/im ... orage-box/

And finally, blue barrels, all bought used.

The 60L barrel was watertight.

The 30L barrel leaked a little. After some trial and error we discovered that the gasket in the lid had been compressed to the point that it no longer provided a good seal. One new gasket later and it was bone dry*

The 45L barrel was actually the container that started the whole experiment. I had always been suspicious about how easy it was to close the locking ring on that barrel. Where the rings on the other barrels required some force I could literally snap that ring closed with one finger. It also did not whoosh air after elevation changes.

Filled the 45L barrel half way, turned upside down and it didn’t leak; water simply poured out. New gasket didn’t help. Doubling up on gaskets didn’t help. A new locking ring, which cost as much as the used barrel, did the trick.

That locking ring had always been too easy to close and I suspect it was not the correct size for that barrel.

*The replacement gasket on the 30L barrel was from one of the retired 5 gallon screw top pails. It was thin, and it fit perfectly, but only worked when laid atop the original gasket that came in the barrel lid.

BTW, I have since heard this trick but never tried it. If the locking ring seems overly easy to snap closed it may be fixable buy taking a pair of pliers and carefully compressing the edge of the ring down closer together.

EDIT: What the hell, I have a new locking ring that is proven to work and saved the one that didn’t.

I took a pair of channel lock pliers and worked my way around the ring squeezing it tighter. The lever now required as much force as the other barrel rings to close and it snapped tight instead of flopping over easily. Looking good so far.

I put a couple gallons of water in the barrel. And didn’t even get it fully inverted before water began to pour out. That’s a fail. YMMV


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PostPosted: July 18th, 2018, 3:29 pm 
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Sometimes the gaskets move on you as you close the lid. I've seen a barrel be completely waterproof for multiple days on a trip (running class IV whitewater in solo boats...things get wet). Then one morning the gasket moved out of position as the lid was put on and clamped down. It wasn't obvious to the person closing the barrel that something was wrong. That evening everything inside was wet. So, even a barrel tested to be dry could leak if not careful.

I've never seen any more then a few drops enter a sealine type dry bag. Though I have seen (small) holes put in them from sharp rocks. I think it would be more obvious if you closed the bag incorrectly. A week under water is a different story of course.

Nothing is perfect. Which is why my important gear is always in a drybag inside a barrel/sealine pack.


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PostPosted: July 21st, 2018, 8:31 am 
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Location: Toronto
DougB wrote:
A few years ago we unpinned a boat on the Lievre with sealine bags and barrels strapped in and submerged. The boat had been there for over a week. The contents of the barrels were completely dry. The bags completely soaked. If properly sealed 5hey work.


Some lids dont match up good. I've used the wrong lid on a barrel and had it leak. Now I test them before trips by filling the barrel with water and seeing if any leaks out with the lid sealed.


To be fair. The sealine bag had chafed right through the vinyl where it had been running a rock for a week or so. I have had a few of those bags go for good long swims and come out perfectly dry. But yes, the barrels where in perfect usable condition.

_________________
I like canoes


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PostPosted: July 21st, 2018, 11:36 am 
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Joined: June 28th, 2001, 7:00 pm
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Location: Freeland, Maryland USA
Dan. wrote:
DougB wrote:
A few years ago we unpinned a boat on the Lievre with sealine bags and barrels strapped in and submerged. The boat had been there for over a week. The contents of the barrels were completely dry. The bags completely soaked. If properly sealed 5hey work.


Some lids dont match up good. I've used the wrong lid on a barrel and had it leak. Now I test them before trips by filling the barrel with water and seeing if any leaks out with the lid sealed.


To be fair. The sealine bag had chafed right through the vinyl where it had been running a rock for a week or so. I have had a few of those bags go for good long swims and come out perfectly dry. But yes, the barrels where in perfect usable condition.



There are, I have heard, dry bags that do not leak when submerged. Watershed bags with drysuit zippers & roll tops. Pricey.

Regular roll top dry bags do OK in a swim, but every time I have opened one to check after recovery there was seepage making its way through the roll up. It would be advantageous to load them with heavier stuff on the bottom so they float with the weepy roll tops less submerged.

I tried the same pseudo science leak test done with the hard sided containers on some roll top dry bags, putting some water in the dry bag and turning it upside down. It leaked almost immediately.

I may be sniffing up a fictitious tree, but the leak-proofieness of a hard sided container vs a dry bag would also seem more odor proof, so all food and cookware goes in a barrel or Cur-tec drum.


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PostPosted: July 22nd, 2018, 8:05 am 
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Joined: February 24th, 2002, 7:00 pm
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Location: HFX, Nova Scotia canada
Biggest thing with barrels is to keep the gasket on the lid clean and keep the edge of the barrel free of nicks, burrs, etc. Other thing is to make sure the same lid makes it on its barrel every time. The gasket becomes seated to the particular barrel and changing may not seal every time.

That being said have only had roll top bags leak when tops were not rolled properly. We do an inspection on them before every trip to check for pin holes. Most occur on the bottom from sitting them down.


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PostPosted: July 31st, 2018, 12:13 pm 
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Joined: March 26th, 2013, 9:27 pm
Posts: 426
Location: Winnipeg, MB
I'm a barrel over Sealline guy but use both. Seallines are great if you take care of them; that's where I screwed up this summer. First night on our two week trip I found two gouges and four holes in my expensive ($$ to volume ratio) 35l Sealline. It finally dawned on me that I stuffed it beside our dog cage and the truck bed. When I pulled it up it would've caught the poorly finished fibreglass on the truck cap.

The plus side to a Sealline, is that while it may not be as durable, it sure is easy to fix.

Moral? Take care of your gear and it'll take care of you.

Also, putting barrels in a CCS harness with thin closed cell foam lining the bottom makes your barrel nearly invincible. We broke a handle off each of our other two (Level Six and Ostrom harnesses) when they caught the gunwales.


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