It is currently November 12th, 2019, 7:10 am

All times are UTC - 5 hours




Post new topic Reply to topic  [ 25 posts ]  Go to page Previous  1, 2
Author Message
PostPosted: March 12th, 2018, 7:34 pm 
Offline
User avatar

Joined: August 8th, 2017, 9:14 am
Posts: 868
So lots of doom and gloom, but a few people saying it is possible.

Still not sure what to do.

When glassing the outside, it seems to be a common theme that you don't want it to stick there. But if it does not stick what holds it in place?

And one big reason for wanting to do this is that the canoe currently gets a lot heavier over the course of a 4 or 5 day canoe trip because of the water it absorbs. Would glassing it change that?

Also, for canvas, where would I get canvas?


Top
 Profile  
 
PostPosted: March 12th, 2018, 8:05 pm 
Offline

Joined: November 6th, 2004, 9:31 pm
Posts: 22
Glass on the outside will not change the amount of water the canoe soaks up to any appreciable degree. That mostly comes from the inside, drips off wet boots, packs, a bit of rain. You'll start off heavier, though, I bet.
Finding cloth? Google.
Myself, I go to a local tentmaker and buy light 10 ounce single-weave cloth. Old time canoe builders used numbered cotton duck like a #12 cloth. It's tighter, stronger, heavier and also harder to stretch over a shape like a canoe. The numbered cloth has two threads together in the weft over and under each single warp thread. The numbered cloth is superior to the ounce cloth in many ways. It's just not as easy for me to get.
For filler, I have lately been following the advice of Rod Tait (I might have his name wrong) of Orca Boats out on the West Coast. he uses a material intended for pipe lagging. It applies easily, smooths well and cures fast. No waiting a month for a cure as with old-fashioned silica fillers. There are dozens of similar products. Here's one: https://ca.henry.com/roofing/hvac-coati ... ng-coating
Takes latex paint and, bonus, adds fire resistance to your canoe.


Top
 Profile  
 
PostPosted: March 13th, 2018, 7:09 am 
Offline

Joined: March 17th, 2002, 7:00 pm
Posts: 1772
Location: Ottawa, Ontario, Canada
Prospector16 wrote:
But if it does not stick what holds it in place?


The gunnels hold canvas in place and the same applies to fiberglass if its not bonded to the hull.

Prospector16 wrote:
And one big reason for wanting to do this is that the canoe currently gets a lot heavier over the course of a 4 or 5 day canoe trip because of the water it absorbs. Would glassing it change that?


Canvas will absorb some water from the inside and fiberglass won't do that, but the inside of the canoe is open to the elements no matter what the outside is covered with so the canoe will get heavier over the course of a trip just a little less heavy with a fiberglass skin.


Top
 Profile  
 
PostPosted: March 15th, 2018, 5:53 am 
Offline
User avatar

Joined: August 8th, 2017, 9:14 am
Posts: 868
Isn't it normal to glass a cedar strip canoe inside and out?

Why is that OK? Or is it not OK somehow?


Top
 Profile  
 
PostPosted: March 15th, 2018, 8:53 am 
Offline

Joined: March 17th, 2002, 7:00 pm
Posts: 1772
Location: Ottawa, Ontario, Canada
Prospector16 wrote:
Isn't it normal to glass a cedar strip canoe inside and out?


Normally... only the outside of the hull in an old cedar canvas canoe is covered in fiberglass. Some folks might do the inside with resin of choice to add some protection against water infusion but it would be a major chore and add a lot of weight to do the inside with glass as well. Stripper canoes are done inside and out with glass but you don't have to deal with ribs and planks. Fiberglass cloth doesn't like curves, won't lay flat. You have to cut cloth on a bias to facilitate going around bends and there are too many complex angles in plank and rib construction to facilitate that so there's no point. Fiberglass mat is about the only thing that goes around corners well but there's no real strength in that and a lot of additional weight so its not a good option.


Top
 Profile  
 
PostPosted: March 15th, 2018, 11:03 am 
Offline
User avatar

Joined: February 12th, 2004, 9:28 am
Posts: 2252
Location: Waterloo, ON
The ribs make all the difference. In cedarstrip-fibreglass construction, the sandwich of fibreglass-wood-fibreglass provides the longitudinal and lateral rigidity and strength. In a cedar-canvas construction the lateral rigidity is provided by the ribs. With cedarstrip-fibreglass construction you don't need or use ribs which lets you lay a smooth end-to-end layer of fibreglass & epoxy on the inside of the hull. In contrast in cedar-canvas construction the ribs are a required structural component but prevent you laying a smooth end-to-end layer of fibreglass & epoxy. The ribs also provide joints between the ribs and the hull where water can accumulate. As long as the joints get to dry out, then the natural rot resistance of the cedar is enough to provide a long life to the canoe. The risk or downfall when attempting to fibreglass the inside of a cedar-canvas boat is that you will create tight enough seals against the ribs to prevent them from drying out but not tight enough to keep water from seeping in.

As a reference point, there's a company up in Powassan - Giessler Bros. Boats - who make cedar plank boats. They will fibreglass the outside as an option and then recommend treating the interior with a clear wood preservative once a year.

_________________
No, your other left!
Loon Island Outdoors
"Like" my Facebook page: http://www.facebook.com/LoonIslandOutdoors


Top
 Profile  
 
PostPosted: August 20th, 2019, 6:36 am 
Offline
User avatar

Joined: November 10th, 2004, 8:17 am
Posts: 168
Location: Ste-Catherine-de-la-Jacques-Cartier
Rolf Kraiker wrote:
If you want to paint it anyway... I'd suggest you put a barrier between the wood and the fiberglass - wax, oil or mould release compound will work - could even covering the hull with cellophane wrap. That lets the hull retain the natural flex it had covered in canvas and makes it easy to take off the fiberglass if you change your mind later. Bonding fiberglass to the wood makes the hull more rigid, if you hit something hard it can damage the hull in a circumstance that would only have damaged the canvas. On a side note to something mentioned elsewhere in this thread about removing fiberglass that's bonded to wood. You can use a heat gun, to soften the resin, it will then peel off without sticking to the hull.


Hi,
I just bought old 14' chesnut.
Would like to fiberglass it as Rolf mentionned above.

But the ''fiberglass guy'' (salesman) tried to convince me it's not a good idea as the single fiberglass layer would be to brittle and crack very easily. :(

Rolf's process seems good to me :thumbup:

any thought or successful experiences?

Thanks
David


Top
 Profile  
 
PostPosted: August 25th, 2019, 2:26 pm 
Offline
User avatar

Joined: June 12th, 2019, 11:24 pm
Posts: 37
Location: Montreal / Gatineau
While I was looking for my first canoe, several cedar strip finished with fiberglass came available, and attractive price. Two cedar strip/canvas builders advised me to steer clear. When water gets between the fiberglass and wood, very difficult maintenance/repairs are in order.


Top
 Profile  
 
PostPosted: August 27th, 2019, 12:30 am 
Offline

Joined: March 21st, 2013, 11:30 am
Posts: 126
Location: Minden, NV USA
This topic always stirs up a lot of controversy.
I have a 1951 Old Town Guide 18.
In the OT catalogue this boat can still be ordered from the factory with either canvas or clear fiberglass. They cost the same, around $5,000 before any extras are added.
I have built fiberglass sailboats and repaired a lot of fiberglass and kevlar canoes of the years. I will probably fiberglass the boat. I have paddled her with several cracked ribs for 30 years. That is the way she came. Next I will replace the cracked ribs and probably the gunwales.
There are some nuances brought up in the discussion about whether to allow the epoxy to adhere to the planks. I hear that loud and clear.


Top
 Profile  
 
PostPosted: August 27th, 2019, 2:25 pm 
Offline
User avatar

Joined: November 10th, 2004, 8:17 am
Posts: 168
Location: Ste-Catherine-de-la-Jacques-Cartier
Thanks for you ''input''. Appreciated.
I made my mind.
I'll let you know the results in the years to come. :)

Hint: going with wax as a barrier, fiberglass and polyester resin and tremclad paint...


Top
 Profile  
 
Display posts from previous:  Sort by  
Post new topic Reply to topic  [ 25 posts ]  Go to page Previous  1, 2

All times are UTC - 5 hours


Who is online

Users browsing this forum: MSN [Bot] and 2 guests


You cannot post new topics in this forum
You cannot reply to topics in this forum
You cannot edit your posts in this forum
You cannot delete your posts in this forum
You cannot post attachments in this forum

Search for:
Jump to:  
Powered by phpBB® Forum Software © phpBB Group