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PostPosted: September 12th, 2018, 6:48 am 
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Resale value really depends on the market. Here in Ottawa the market is really hot for used canoes. Any good deal on kijiji is gone in 12 hours just about every time. But even within this market there are cooler micro-markets. Anything on the Quebec side of the border will hang around longer, and the further away from the border you get the price lowers and they don't sell as quickly. This has just been my observation as someone who has been checking kijiji 10 times a day for the last 5 years. Other markets I look at when looking for friends in other parts of the country are very different. A good deal in Alberta can stay there for a week or two for example.

$1000 for a fiberglass canoe is about my top end limit. In fact just a few months ago I helped a buddy buy a used Swift for that price - in exceptional condition. Very nice canoe. I might have even paid that for it myself but I'm a cheapskate. 2/3 is my rule of thumb as well but it has to be a really nice canoe for that.

Here in Ottawa you could flip canoes and make money. Just wait for the right deal and move fast on it. I've considered doing it. Especially if you want to run up into Gatineau and collect up some of those ones in the cooler micro-market, and then re-sell them here in town.


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PostPosted: September 12th, 2018, 7:29 am 
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littleredcanoe wrote:
I cannot justify buying one as I have a Curtis Nomad from 1987. Its heavier and I believe it is 42 lbs and it is indeed kevlar with gelcoat.. It would be touching 50 if glass.. Not sure LDC ever did pure glass.
It's 43 lbs fiberglass.


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PostPosted: September 12th, 2018, 8:45 am 
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The current craze with light weight canoes is setting demand and supply, and making a lot of people pay big prices for the added comfort of not having a bit of suffering. Heavier canoes are becoming a thing of the past, which i think it a travesty. I'm pretty sure most of us older people started our canoe tripping careers in w/c canoes, or 89 pound grummans, or 70 to 80 pound fiberglass canoes. Kind of got used to carrying canoes around those weights. I have taken w/c canoes, fiberglass canoes, cedar strip canoes, kevlar canoes, tuff stuff, almost every layup in existence on fairly demanding extended canoe trips. It's all about judgement, if you want to bounce canoes off rocks as part of your white water technique, or run stuff that is beyond your ability, or drag your fully loaded canoe across portages, then you better match the material accordingly.

Personally, I think fiberglass is fine. A 16 foot nova craft prospector in fiberglass is around 1600 new and 67 pounds. Their royalite was 64. The standard tuff stuff layup is around 54. 67 pounds is not an unreasonable weight to carry. I bought four of them for our school canoe club, and even the grade nines can carry them.

Don't forget about repairability either. Fiberglass canoes are very easy to fix.


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PostPosted: September 12th, 2018, 8:47 am 
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I would say yes. It's what mine is made of. It's the model that Splake mentions in the 4th post of this thread. It's 66lbs and full of scuffs and scrapes. Some are pretty deep.

Not that it means anything, because I don't know the construction, but I would be worried about a 45lb fiberglass canoe based on where mine is at. My perception is that a 'serious' boat is the toughest one you can carry. Based on a nova craft video I would think tuffstuf and from experience royalex, are pretty serious.

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PostPosted: September 12th, 2018, 9:19 am 
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http://www.wcha.org/forums/index.php?th ... uild.9927/

Doing a little digging it seems LDC did some Nomads in the 80's in glass.. And you can tell by the grey interior.. My glass boats always had gray interiors. The one in the pic had decks redone..those are not original.

There still is glass in some high end composites.. LDC puts a full blanket in even in lightweight canoes.
I won't diss a canoe cause it is glass.. It depends on how the resin is applied! Resin adds no strength.. If the excess is meticulously removed the glass boat should not weigh that much more. If it is left cause its more labor intensive to squegee it out, then it is unneeded weight.

Here is a pictorial summary

http://www.hemlockcanoe.com/building-a- ... inish.html


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PostPosted: September 12th, 2018, 1:22 pm 
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canoeguitar wrote:
I wouldn't personally buy a fiberglass canoe. There's and old saying "the poor man pays twice". If you plan to continue to get further into backcountry tripping and possibly head out on longer trips you'll eventually dump the fiberglass (at a loss) and get a kevlar / kev-spectra / innegra boat and be glad you did.


I would not buy a new, full retail price fiberglass canoe, even from a reputable manufacturer, for all the reasons above.

But I have bought some really nice 80’s and 90’s glass boats on the cheap used. Even cheaper (sometimes freebies) if the wood gunwales and brightwork needed work.

Our glass MRC Independence was one of those, left to rot upside down in the leaf litter by a lake. A freebie, the gunwales crumbled in my hand when I put it on the roof racks, and it was a slow ride home.

New DIY gunwales, seat and thwarts and that Independence is, 20 years and probably 30 canoes later, still one of my wife’s favorite solo canoes. Total rehab cost me maybe $100 in parts and materials. MSRP on a new glass Indy at the time (1994-1995) was $1019. A kevlar Indy was $1749; either was well out of our budget.

Sometimes the enemy of the good is the perfect.

Edit: Kevlar MRC Explorer, same brightwork rotted condition, same time period, same freebie just haul it away. Still going strong with a poler friend.


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PostPosted: September 12th, 2018, 3:27 pm 
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canoeguitar wrote:
I wouldn't personally buy a fiberglass canoe. There's and old saying "the poor man pays twice". If you plan to continue to get further into backcountry tripping and possibly head out on longer trips you'll eventually dump the fiberglass (at a loss) and get a kevlar / kev-spectra / innegra boat and be glad you did. While you'll most likely end up with the canoe you really want, you'll have spent 1.5 X the price by taking the long way home.

This is my general philosophy on any purchase involving something that is a passion or serious interest. Save up and make the right purchase once. It's ultimately more cost effective and satisfying.



Another angle on this - often it is better to buy something "cheap" if you don't know exactly what you want. More rocker, longer shorter etc. Use it for a while, take a loss while determining more precisely what you really want in a boat (or any other expensive gear for that matter), and if the higher cost is justified (how much used, etc). $0.02.


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PostPosted: September 12th, 2018, 4:06 pm 
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ski_it wrote:
Another angle on this - often it is better to buy something "cheap" if you don't know exactly what you want. More rocker, longer shorter etc. Use it for a while, take a loss while determining more precisely what you really want in a boat (or any other expensive gear for that matter), and if the higher cost is justified (how much used, etc). $0.02.


Only thing I would change is don't consider it a loss. You get the use of the boat for the duration. Maybe you decide to sell it and sell it for a bit less than you paid but that's not a loss, a rental maybe but not a loss.

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PostPosted: September 12th, 2018, 4:24 pm 
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Fiberglass is not at all inferior to Kevlar or Carbon. It is still heavier though.. And my DragonFly still has a lot of glass in it.. Why because DF is a downriver racing boat meant for rocky rapids..

Millbrook Boats is a builder of fiberglass boats with some Kevlar.. They cater to the whitewater crowd
http://www.millbrookboats.com/construc_order.htm

If you are going to look down on glass learn about the different types of fiberglass. Not all are alike.



Sure I would buy a glass boat. I had a FlashFire once in glass and might get it back. There is cheap which is different from cheaply built.

BTW my FG Sawyer 190 is 30 years old and still going strong.. At 62 lbs its stronger than I am.


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PostPosted: September 12th, 2018, 4:39 pm 
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No need to take a loss at all on a used boat. If you use it for 2-3 years and it is still in about the same condition as when you bought it, you should have no problem at all getting the same price for it that you paid for it.


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PostPosted: September 12th, 2018, 4:42 pm 
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littleredcanoe wrote:
Fiberglass is not at all inferior to Kevlar or Carbon. It is still heavier though..


Yeah this is a common misconception I think. Kevlar gives you similar durability at a lighter weight.

My buddy trashed his brand new kevlar canoe slamming into a rock trying to run some class 2-3. Would have been about the same damage to a fibreglass boat.


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PostPosted: September 13th, 2018, 1:49 am 
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To add another.
A couple of years ago I was sitting around with a friend who has been canoeing longer than I have been alive (50+ years) and he was saying it was time to buy a lightweight canoe that would be a little easier to carry from the car and across the odd portage.
What was he in the market for you ask, fiberglass and big enough to carry all his crap that on occasion included a fold up 4 seater picnic table.
From his perspective as long as it was lighter than his 85Lb aluminum it was an improvement.
Yes I suggested he take a look at what was available in Kevlar and Tuff Stuff but as he put it "You young'ins are spoiled. why pay twice the price for something that breaks easier"
As he pointed out. it is all relative. A glass canoe would shave 20 or 25Lbs, be easier to paddle faster and a tube of 5 minute epoxy and a little duct tape will field repair anything.

My personal opinion from someone who has both a glass and Kevlar canoe.
Our tandem is glass. 68Lbs with aluminum gunwales and my solo is Expedition Kevlar 42Lbs with carbon fiber gunwals both purchased new.
I have taken and dragged the tandem places I would not think of taking the solo. It just bounces better in the lighter stuff, is easier to repair and I do not curse and mumble nearly as much when I catch a rock or a dead head or..... in a canoe that was 1/3 the price of the solo.
Both have been on 5+ day trips in Algonquin and off the beaten path a few times.
I would not worry about fiberglass canoes being phased out. When they hit the market it was going to be the end of aluminum and they are still being made.

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PostPosted: September 13th, 2018, 5:04 am 
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Prospector16 wrote:
[...]
My buddy trashed his brand new kevlar canoe slamming into a rock trying to run some class 2-3. Would have been about the same damage to a fibreglass boat.

Yes, but the kevlar may hold the hull better together when damaged. That is why many fibreglass canoes and kayaks in Europe are built with one or more layers of Diolen, a polyester fiber which is not as expensive as Kevlar. But the use of Diolen can make a fiberglass boat a bit heavier...

Dirk Barends

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PostPosted: September 14th, 2018, 9:53 am 
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Yeah it needs to be durable and you need to be able lift it and there are pricier options, and resale may be a factor, but ultimately, here's the only important question...

"Does it feel like a serious canoe to you?"

So?... Let us know when you've paddled it!

P.

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