Canadian Canoe Routes
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New Boat Owners / Souris River Quetico 16' / Moving a Canoe
http://www.myccr.com/phpBB3_PROD/viewtopic.php?f=20&t=47087
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Author:  joshmanicus [ October 14th, 2018, 9:19 am ]
Post subject:  New Boat Owners / Souris River Quetico 16' / Moving a Canoe

My wife and I recently purchased a used Souris River Quetico 16' on the advice of a seasoned and trusted canoeist that we know, as well as a number of glowing reviews from this forum (among other places). From what I could see, there isn't a single negative review of the Souris River offerings on this forum.

When I started looking, I had originally been leaning toward a Nova Craft Prospector 16' in the Tuffstuff layup, but this boat came at a price which was hard to argue with, so we bought it instead and I'm reasonably confident that it will prove to be a good choice over the long run.

It's four years old, came patched up, varnished and looks like it's been well cared for. We brought it home on foam blocks, but I think we're going to get a roof rack because it was incredibly loud on account of not being able to cinch it down enough to stop one of the foamies from vibrating. No amount of shifting things around, re-cinching seemed to help.

Anyway, the reason I'm rambling on about it is because I was hoping that I could get some advice for newbie boat owners on this particular boat.

Tips on paddling it for maximum efficiency, proper storage and winter maintenance and anything other advice that people could offer to new paddlers / boat owners would be greatly appreciated!

Author:  frozentripper [ October 14th, 2018, 9:46 am ]
Post subject:  Re: New Boat Owners / Souris River Quetico 16' / Moving a Ca

Once you get the roof racks, tie-down loops might help keep the canoe secure... I used ordinary bolts instead of the toggle bolts. There also may be commercially-made loops, haven't checked them out.

https://paddling.com/learn/diy-handy-tie-down-loops/

Author:  cheryl [ October 14th, 2018, 10:39 am ]
Post subject:  Re: New Boat Owners / Souris River Quetico 16' / Moving a Ca

Josh; was that the boat in Holland Landing?

Author:  Dave_k [ October 14th, 2018, 12:16 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: New Boat Owners / Souris River Quetico 16' / Moving a Ca

This might be something you've already doing if using straps, which typically come with the foam blocks for canoes, but I figure it wouldn't hurt to point it out just incase. I find you'll still get vibration whether using a roof rack or foam blocks if you are using straps unless you put a twist in the strap where it is not in contact with the hull. If the strap is straight it will flutter/oscillate like a reed in a wood wind instrument or like the infamous Tacoma Narrows bridge that oscillated and collapsed in 1940. They typically don't make skyscraper rectangular any longer for the same reason. The twist in the strap allows the vortices to escape so you don't develop that super annoying and loud sound while driving.

Author:  Canoeheadted [ October 14th, 2018, 1:40 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: New Boat Owners / Souris River Quetico 16' / Moving a Ca

You're a canoeist now... get a proper rack and learn a couple of knots/hitches.

For efficiency there's a lot, but quick and dirty I could say...

-Paddle in unison on opposite sides. (same side if conditions warrant)
-Bow sets the cadence and helps with additional steering if warranted
-Stern matches the bow persons strokes (this gives you outriggers on each side with each stroke)
-Stern controls general direction of canoe / bow takes over in tight manouevers
-Stern directs bowperson to request additional steering strokes when needed (power stroke with a little draw or pry as needed)
-Swap postions so you can learn what the other paddler is going through and understand what they need from their paddling partner. That way, no matter what happens, you can paddle any situation.
-Learn to paddle symmetrical for so many reasons. Weak sides suck.

I hang mine with ropes from the rafters. Two ropes and boat right side up for summer. Easy to grab and stored symmetrically.
Three ropes and boat upside down for the winter. Sheds anything that falls and again stored symmetrically.
I store six hulls in our boat shed. Expanded for summer so I can grab any one any time and pulled up tight to the ceiling through winter so I can still use the floor space.

Put your canoe away clean and with a layer of 303 UV protectant so it's ready when you are next spring.

One last thing...these are two very different designs, this boat is nowhere near as manoeuvrable as the Prospector you thought of buying.
Stay off rivers unless outfitted with skills. This is a boat that requires bow assistance for tighter manoeuvres or pushy water.

Have fun, congrats on the new ride.
Woo Hoo!

Author:  joshmanicus [ October 14th, 2018, 6:02 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: New Boat Owners / Souris River Quetico 16' / Moving a Ca

cheryl wrote:
Josh; was that the boat in Holland Landing?


No, we bought it from an outfitter who operates in Killarney Provincial Park.

Author:  joshmanicus [ October 14th, 2018, 6:09 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: New Boat Owners / Souris River Quetico 16' / Moving a Ca

Dave_k wrote:
This might be something you've already doing if using straps, which typically come with the foam blocks for canoes, but I figure it wouldn't hurt to point it out just incase. I find you'll still get vibration whether using a roof rack or foam blocks if you are using straps unless you put a twist in the strap where it is not in contact with the hull. If the strap is straight it will flutter/oscillate like a reed in a wood wind instrument or like the infamous Tacoma Narrows bridge that oscillated and collapsed in 1940. They typically don't make skyscraper rectangular any longer for the same reason. The twist in the strap allows the vortices to escape so you don't develop that super annoying and loud sound while driving.


Thanks!

We had read about putting a twist in the straps, but we didn't want to take apart the knots and such that the outfitter had made when they showed us how to strap it down to the car. If it goes out this year before we buy a roof rack then we'll definitely try this.

Author:  joshmanicus [ October 14th, 2018, 6:15 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: New Boat Owners / Souris River Quetico 16' / Moving a Ca

frozentripper wrote:
Once you get the roof racks, tie-down loops might help keep the canoe secure... I used ordinary bolts instead of the toggle bolts. There also may be commercially-made loops, haven't checked them out.

https://paddling.com/learn/diy-handy-tie-down-loops/


Thanks! We currently have paracord looped onto itself (reef knoted) through a convenient spot under the hood, but this looks like a better long term solution. I'm thinking if I ever went this route then I'd probably look at using a lock nut instead of a toggle or a regular nut.

Author:  joshmanicus [ October 14th, 2018, 6:27 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: New Boat Owners / Souris River Quetico 16' / Moving a Ca

Canoeheadted wrote:
You're a canoeist now... get a proper rack and learn a couple of knots/hitches.

For efficiency there's a lot, but quick and dirty I could say...

-Paddle in unison on opposite sides. (same side if conditions warrant)
-Bow sets the cadence and helps with additional steering if warranted
-Stern matches the bow persons strokes (this gives you outriggers on each side with each stroke)
-Stern controls general direction of canoe / bow takes over in tight manouevers
-Stern directs bowperson to request additional steering strokes when needed (power stroke with a little draw or pry as needed)
-Swap postions so you can learn what the other paddler is going through and understand what they need from their paddling partner. That way, no matter what happens, you can paddle any situation.
-Learn to paddle symmetrical for so many reasons. Weak sides suck.

I hang mine with ropes from the rafters. Two ropes and boat right side up for summer. Easy to grab and stored symmetrically.
Three ropes and boat upside down for the winter. Sheds anything that falls and again stored symmetrically.
I store six hulls in our boat shed. Expanded for summer so I can grab any one any time and pulled up tight to the ceiling through winter so I can still use the floor space.

Put your canoe away clean and with a layer of 303 UV protectant so it's ready when you are next spring.

One last thing...these are two very different designs, this boat is nowhere near as manoeuvrable as the Prospector you thought of buying.
Stay off rivers unless outfitted with skills. This is a boat that requires bow assistance for tighter manoeuvres or pushy water.

Have fun, congrats on the new ride.
Woo Hoo!



Thanks for all the feedback!

I think we're going to hang it upside down from the rafters of a shed that I have access to and can keep locked.

As far as paddling goes, we've been discussed switching spots and we've been occasionally switching sides paddling when the wind conditions are not favourable to paddling on our normal sides. I'll definitely work on learning to paddle more efficiently on my goofy side though.

I have a question about cadence. I find that I usually have to skip a stroke on occasion in order to steer where I want and also keep pace. Am I doing something wrong or is the cadence too fast?

Lastly, when you say rivers, do you mean moving water? I think I've seen these terms used interchangeably before, but I'm not certain.

Author:  Canoeheadted [ October 14th, 2018, 8:56 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: New Boat Owners / Souris River Quetico 16' / Moving a Ca

Skipping a stroke to steer is OK if that's what you want. That being said, it is very inefficient.
You do lose momentum if you're not providing power and the correction stroke is also slowing you down.

The cadence could be too fast, maybe.
Your J stroke may need work.
If your J is OK, then maybe it's time to learn a pitch stroke.

Sometimes conditions will dictate what needs to be done to maintain a heading.
This is why it's good to learn many ways of moving your end of the canoe.

Say I'm trying to turn upwind to the right and am having trouble turning because the wind and waves cause me to go broadside (keeping me from turning right). I would paddle stern on the left side with forward stroke and a draw combined, my wife in the bow would do the same thing on the right side of the boat. We call this a 45º draw.
Both of us are providing power and both of us are helping to steer by drawing our ends of the canoe to facilitate the turn.
This way there is power and correction applied without losing too much momentum.

You should get yourself a paddling bible... it's called "Path of the Paddle" by Bill Mason.
There's also great video online. Look up "NFB Path of the Paddle". All four videos are goldmines of information.

Yes, I mean moving water when I say rivers.
I hope this helps.

Author:  Dave_k [ October 15th, 2018, 9:28 am ]
Post subject:  Re: New Boat Owners / Souris River Quetico 16' / Moving a Ca

Quote:
we've been occasionally switching sides paddling when the wind conditions are not favourable to paddling on our normal sides.


How can you paddle for any length of time if you are not regularly switching sides? No I'm not switching sides after three strokes and Yes my stroke feels unnatural for the first how many seconds after switching onto the new side until the muscles adjust. Trust me, your body will thank you if you switch sides regularly on a trip.

Author:  Paddle Power [ October 15th, 2018, 2:20 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: New Boat Owners / Souris River Quetico 16' / Moving a Ca

Maybe it’s time to sign up for a canoeing course.

Author:  joshmanicus [ October 15th, 2018, 6:59 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: New Boat Owners / Souris River Quetico 16' / Moving a Ca

Paddle Power wrote:
Maybe it’s time to sign up for a canoeing course.


I have pitched this idea several times and the wife has shot it down on account of it being "expensive."

Author:  Dave_k [ October 15th, 2018, 8:34 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: New Boat Owners / Souris River Quetico 16' / Moving a Ca

Ah, the comeback for the "That too expensive." is "What price do you put on your safety?". You don't know what information you missing out on and how to deal with certain situation that you will encounter while paddling. Do you know what a low or high brace is? It will save you from a potential capsize. You spend money on equipment to be safe (i.e PDF), why not spend it on yourself. Its the other half of the safety equation.

Author:  Paddle Power [ October 16th, 2018, 1:02 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: New Boat Owners / Souris River Quetico 16' / Moving a Ca

Kind of similar to buying a computer but not wanting to buy software; buying a car but not wanting to buy gas; building a house but not wanting to spend money on hiring an architect.

Most people have positive experiences on canoeing courses and say they should have signed up years before.

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