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PostPosted: October 14th, 2019, 9:29 am 
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Joined: May 23rd, 2002, 7:00 pm
Posts: 252
Location: Ottawa, Ontario Canada
While I carry bear bangers, I have come to realize that I likely won't have time to actually use one in the event of a surprise encounter. I suppose I could have a banger mounted on the launcher ahead of time and then carry the launcher in my hand at all times, that just isn't always practical. Putting a mounted unit in a pocket, with only the little detent holding the firing pin back seems reckless. I'd expect that the odds in favour of an accidental firing would be high. And groping around in a pocket while distracted by a charging bear seems unlikely to succeed in time.

I must confess I have not tried to carry the launcher with a banger installed and the firing pin left pressed against the bottom of the banger. I would suspect that any jostling in a pocket or pack might damage the bottom of the banger so that it wouldn't fire properly when needed. But I could be wrong. (It's happened once or twice before. Me being wrong, I mean.)

I prefer carring the bear spray in a belt pouch originally used to cary a nalgene water bottle. Always on the outside of any jacket or other clothing. Fairly secure, easy to retrieve.


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PostPosted: October 16th, 2019, 2:25 pm 
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Joined: March 9th, 2014, 11:10 pm
Posts: 21
wow, the ol' stare down deterrent. balls of steel required. i routinely carry spray and have had to pull it once at close range in fear. a grizzly sow with 3 yearling cubs, i startled them at close range at a running stream that i failed to make noise as i approached. they had a good look at me then just ran away. i thought for sure i was going to have to pull the trigger.

i am recently firearm licensed and have purchased a hunting rifle, but only shot at the range. warding off an attack at close range with a gun would be very difficult and it seems to me, unlikely to be effective unless you had the right gun and a perfect shot. avoidance if possible seems the best tactic.


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PostPosted: October 16th, 2019, 6:39 pm 
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Joined: August 26th, 2008, 8:48 pm
Posts: 58
This thread has got me wondering what the protocol is and if there are any ramifications in a situation where a bear (either grizzly or polar) is shot/killed in self defence.


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PostPosted: October 17th, 2019, 4:45 am 
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Joined: March 8th, 2009, 9:35 pm
Posts: 48
I'll just add my own anecdotal experience on this. I'd posted here about a bear encounter I had in 2016 which was as close as one gets without being injured or killed. Solo, far from civilization.

I grew up with guns, but I resent the weight, and don't want to hump one over dozens of portages, so never bring one.

Does bear spray work? Yeah... sorta... it wouldn't matter with a determined bear. Those are all true IMO.

It irritated that particular and reasonably determined bear enough to give me time to pack and get back in the water, but not much else. I doubt it would even slow down a determined, predatory bear.

Before I carried anything, I had another bear encounter in the middle of the night, and I basically just spoke and he/she ran into the bush so fast I couldn't even see him/her move.

I've ran across maybe 10-12 wolves, all alone, and they have been timid but curious. A pack may be quite different, although I've spent a couple of sleepless nights with packs a couple of hundred yards away yipping and howling nearby with no problems.

One of the moose charges I dealt with, I fired off a bear banger. That was a huge mistake. Probably the biggest error I've made in the bush. It enraged her, and I spent quite a while dodging her in a shallow lake. Outside of calfing or rutting seasons, I find it's best to not change what you are doing and studiously ignore aggressive moose. They lose interest before getting too aggressive. No idea how to behave in calfing or rutting season lol, but I've had several moose encounters, two of which involved me being charged, and several non-aggressive-ish situations where I was less than twenty feet from them.

About the protocol for killing a bear in self-defense. Last year (2018), I ran into someone who killed a bear on Great Slave Lake a couple of days earlier (likely, at least.... he shot it and it ran into the bush). He sat phoned Natural Resources, and they flew out. He described the incident, and they found it fine and left. It was a black bear, but I doubt things would change for the other two regarding governmental response.


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PostPosted: October 17th, 2019, 10:56 am 
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Joined: January 11th, 2005, 4:58 pm
Posts: 1959
Location: Manitoba
Bears seem to be curious animals and have a smaller personal space/comfort zone than most humans during bear-human encounters. That’s one reason why bear spray is better than guns.

Yes the protocol for killing a bear is to contact the nearest wildlife office, preferably as soon as possible, even before shooting to make them aware of your situation.

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PostPosted: November 13th, 2019, 9:23 pm 
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Joined: October 29th, 2001, 7:00 pm
Posts: 435
Location: Livingston Montana- On the Banks of the Yellowstone River
i live near Yellowstone. Plenty of Griz. I know many people that have used spray with 100% success.
I know of many stories and hunters who used guns with not at good of success...mauled etc. When you or anything suddenly can't fricken breath, you react and panic in a fast way. When you get shot...different story....a big dose of pain in the side....not the same as NOT BREATHING. pepper spray works. Best not to get yourself in the situation first. be noisy, loud and not walk up on a sow and cub.

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PostPosted: December 19th, 2019, 10:21 pm 
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Joined: April 10th, 2012, 4:41 pm
Posts: 172
Location: Stouffville, ON
Paddle Power wrote:
Yes the protocol for killing a bear is to contact the nearest wildlife office, preferably as soon as possible, even before shooting to make them aware of your situation.
:rofl:


"Hello MNR? There is an aggressive bear pursuing me that I would like to shoot."

MNR: "Please hold."


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PostPosted: December 20th, 2019, 8:58 am 
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Joined: February 24th, 2005, 1:15 pm
Posts: 290
During the Yukon canoe races, this question has been asked. Most everyone carries bear spray, at least for the 1000 mile race. I have never heard of anyone carrying a firearm. Tuns out, if you shoot a griz out of season, provincial and state regulations require you to transport the carcass to the nearest official facility. This could in some cases be as much as 200 miles upstream, not a viable option to paddle against a 6+mph current flowing downstream.

Local folk told us to be more afraid of moose than of bears. In most cases, I believe, unless a cub is involved or the bear otherwise feels threatened, a bear who takes interest in you is only interested in access to your food. But when a moose takes an interest, it's goal is to kill you. We saw plenty of both during our races, but never had any direct encounters.


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PostPosted: December 20th, 2019, 3:49 pm 
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Joined: January 11th, 2005, 4:58 pm
Posts: 1959
Location: Manitoba
Many bear encounters take time to escalate. We had time to call. In fact the closest office had staff that was not on duty and directed us to another office. So we made several calls. Staff were helpful.
Killing animals without permission/out of season/ etc. involves rules and regulations. Similar to above we were ask to transport the bear (hundreds of pounds/or skin it) but it was not practical based on our location, equipment, experience (read as: canoe on a river with whitewater with an open salt water crossing to the nearest office/paddlers not experienced hunters, and so on). In the end they come to us.
No doubt staff appreciated that we had contacted them in advance and it was the best thing to do for all parties involved.

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PostPosted: January 29th, 2020, 11:19 am 
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Joined: March 8th, 2009, 9:35 pm
Posts: 48
For bear bangers, a couple of years ago I decided to make a little PVC tube with the loaded banger inside, and hang it around my neck with a string. Still takes a couple f seconds to get it out, but not much worse than reaching into your pocket and pulling it out. It's good because it's right there, loaded, and kept from rusting in the watertight tube.


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PostPosted: January 30th, 2020, 12:31 pm 
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Joined: September 16th, 2019, 1:47 pm
Posts: 110
I'm nervous about the banger around your neck Derek. May I suggest relocating to an outer thigh pocket?


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PostPosted: January 31st, 2020, 2:11 am 
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Joined: March 18th, 2019, 7:54 pm
Posts: 121
Location: Brampton
I carry loaded bear bangers with this: https://www.mec.ca/en/product/5043-423/Flare-Case

It clips on a belt, holds the detent in, and keeps everything ready with all the extra flares/bangers. It's basically impossible to set off by accident with the way that detent pin gets locked in place. It's rather bulky though, but fits nicely in a leg pocket. I've practiced with it, and it seems quick enough, if you do one or two drills a year. Basically it's the best balance between safety and availability I've been able to find in a bear banger. I carry spray as well, on my other hip.

I will still argue that having a lethal deterrent, in addition, is better, depending on the size of your group. If you find yourself in the presence of a predatory bear with no easy way out... yeah. I don't carry firearms when solo currently. Perhaps I need lighter firearms.

I wouldn't carry a banger around my neck. That's a very bad place for an accident, and it's all too easy to **** up in a panic with explosives.

Generally though, just make lots of noise. There are far more surprised predators than predatory predators.

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PostPosted: February 1st, 2020, 11:37 am 
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Joined: March 8th, 2009, 9:35 pm
Posts: 48
Well, it hangs down below my sternum like a necklace, not tight to my neck, plus I've sized it to fit the banger without jostling (and put in foam) so I'm not worried. I could throw the thing at a wall all day and I am confident it wouldn't get accidentally triggered.


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PostPosted: February 1st, 2020, 12:40 pm 
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Joined: January 25th, 2004, 2:59 pm
Posts: 251
Location: Ottawa
Derek123,

I think what folks are trying to say is that *anything* hanging around your neck is a choke/entaglement hazard. Especially in a capsize event.

Miked.


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PostPosted: February 1st, 2020, 9:48 pm 
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Joined: September 16th, 2019, 1:47 pm
Posts: 110
Actually, what I'm saying Mike, is that putting - what is essentially a pipe-bomb - around your neck is a great way to decapitate oneself. Carotid artery, spine, central nervous system are all located within shrapnel range.


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