Im trying to justify the cost and weight of an Ostrom pack and am finding it a little difficult compared to the RBW Expedition.

Both look quite similar, with the Ostrom being more adjustable and significantly heavier (7lbs for the Wabakimi, nearly 6lbs for the Winisk, under 4lbs for the RBW)

Otherwise they are both made from 1000D Nylon and look to have similar features. I know Ostrom is *the* pack, but the RBW stuff is also very new. Anyone have any thoughts?

The RBW is based off the Ostrom design. Ostrom had retired and RBW basically licensed the design and got them manufactured offshore with some corners cut.

More recently Ostrom has come out of retirement and is having his original design manufactured again.

In the Ostrom you can expect nicer padding and better fit and finish. The RBW is still a nice pack and is really the budget version of the Ostrom Original.

Interesting. Ostrom is overseas manufactured as well now, so thats kind of a wash to me. The weight difference is just HUGE to me. The difference in weight it more than my tent weighs....

Having never used frameless, I do like that the Wabakimi has one, but the one photo of it online doesn't look like much of a frame. And 7lbs...

Interesting that neither company actually states where their packs are made. China, Mexico or Vietnam. It does make a difference to many people and also the ability to ensure quality is maintained on the production line. Also interesting to see that neither pack is using genuine Cordura though if one is using a textured fabric and the other not I would go with the textured, it's way more abrasion resistant. That said I think there is the opportunity to nuse much lighter fabrics on areas of a canoe pack that receive less wear and tear and fabrics like Robic nylon and X-Pac could be used to significantly bring the weight down though using cheap generic pack cloth would not be my first choice.

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I wasnt trying to downplay quality in the offshoring. That was just part of the history. I know Ostrom moved manufacturing offshore as well.

I have 2 original wabakimis and they are totally bombproof and seem to be almost unfillable in terms of gear.

Frame to Frameless I think helps in load bearing on your back but Ive down lots of trips with drybag packs which were frameless. Of all my packs I do have to say if Im taking a heavy load the ostrom is the way to go.

If your gear is ultralight already then go with the lighter pack. But at 115l volume I cant imagine an ultralight setup needing that kind of space.

I just looked at some of my RBW gear from a few years ago. I dont see a "made in" tag but the label says designed by Ostrom Made by RBW.

A lot of UL stuff can still take up a bit of space (my 2.5lb tent takes up about 15l, our 1.5lb sleeping bags take up ~15l combined, clothes for us both are around 15l, sleeping pads are around 20l....she adds up) and we take some non-UL stuff (hello wine and dog food). We also try to buy UL where we can so that we can cheat in other places. We bring Helinoz chair zeros. Any of the UL evangelists would think its sacrilegious to carry a 500g chair.

The goal is to go from 2 packs to 1, so the canoe carrier is packless. Also to eliminate anything hanging off the outside. Also sick of backpacking bags and their endlessly useless pockets and poor shapes. Just want a big hole to throw crap into.

With that being said, highly doubt we will max out the 115l. Our last trip was packed in a 55l and a 32l. But never hurts to have the flexibility for longer trips or travel with friends who dont have the same type of gear.

Hearing that the RBW is basically an old school Ostrom (even with corners cut) certainly has me leaning that way. Can get 2 for the price of an Ostrom, and the two combined would weight the same amount!

Its cheap enough to try and move on to Ostrom if it isnt right. Thanks for the helpful info

In response to a question I sent to Bill about where the packs were made, I got this answer -



My brother, who is 6'5", ordered the Wabakimi pack. Over the past decade, we have used the now-defunct Holligan Gear's Canoe Pack, which is the poor man's version of the Ostrom. It is a decent pack and I will keep on using it. I may sell the second one!

However, Max found it too small for his frame. He is really looking forward to having a pack that will fit him properly. He just sent me an email this morning. The pack will is scheduled to arrive at his door this afternoon!

As for the weight compared to the other pack mentioned, it is about the weight of one day's food for one person...an easy extra to rationalize given all the plusses of a sturdier pack with Ostrom genes. However, as always, YMMV!

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http://albinger.me/canoe-tripping/

Oh boy, the food we bring certainly doesn't weight that much! A days worth for 2 people is under a pound. Not about that backcountry gourmet food life though. Save the weight for whisky and wine!

This has me a little confused, as the videos I found on the RBW packs from them say their packs are new for 2021. Maybe just design changes?

a liter of whisky - 1 kg. or 2.2 lbs. There is your difference!

Less than 1 lb. of food a day for two people - really? If so, you guys run a spartan trip!

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http://albinger.me/canoe-tripping/

Right, but its about cutting weight where you can. I could use this same logic for every piece of kit and then be carrying a few hundred pounds out there! Double the weight in the bag that is only used to carry the important stuff isnt anything to sneeze at. Id definitely go with an UL bag if I could trust it to last, but the pack takes abuse. Id gladly take a bag like this using lighter materials where possible.

1lb is pretty easy to hit. Starbucks via for coffee (4g x 4 = 16g), instant oatmeal for breakfast (43g x 4 = 172g), granola bar for snack (50g x 2 = 100g) and split a freeze dried for dinner (130-170g)

All comes out to 418-458g. Some days are less, some days a tad more. On the whole we average out to less than 1lb/day. Especially since day 1 and final day combine to 1 day.

That can't be much over 1500 calories. Good on you if you can make that work on a trip!

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Have canoe, will travel.

Lots more from the wine ;p

Starbucks - 0 calories

2 instant oatmeal packs - 320 calories (160 per pack)

1 Clifbar 250 calories

1/2 of a dehydrated entree - 360 per serving - Backpackers Fettuccini Alfredo with Chicken

Total calories 940 calories a day per person.

BTW - you guys don't do lunch? Or is that the Clifbar?

See this web page to calculate calories burned. I chose the canoeing/portaging option. My calorie burn for a day (6 hours on the move) came out to 3600 calories.

https://captaincalculator.com/health/ca ... alculator/

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http://albinger.me/canoe-tripping/