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PostPosted: November 23rd, 2021, 11:44 pm 
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Location: Toronto, Ontario Canada
You should also check this Canadian company for tarps!!:

https://adotecgear.com/tarps/

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PostPosted: November 24th, 2021, 7:20 am 
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Joined: June 28th, 2001, 7:00 pm
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Location: Freeland, Maryland USA
plexus wrote:
... and I just realized what all the talk about tarp clips is ... as an alternative to edge loops. so it doesn't matter really if a tarp has specific edge loops because with good tarp clips you can create that connection point anywhere! I just didn't clue into that.


To be clear I wasn’t suggesting using Gator-clips as the sole tie out points, but instead carrying one in case a tie out fails or you want/need an extra guy line or pole somewhere along the tarp edge that lacks a connection point. Those Gator clips could be hard on the hemmed edge in strong winds, so I only use one as a back up, or to attach the colorful tarp flag/windsock, which doesn’t put much stress on the hemmed edges.

“Clips” can refer to a variety of quick-connect attachments, often used from the tarp edge to a sliding prussic for tensioning the ridgeline.

One feature I absolutely want on any tarp is tie outs spaced along the centerline for a ridge rope. I’d prefer not to have the tarp material resting directly on a ridgeline with the potential for wind abrasion. In a rectangular tarp, 10 x 12, 10 x 14 etc, I want those tie outs across the center line in both directions +.

Depending on the space available, wind direction and desired tarp orientation sometimes long ways is best, sometimes the shorter ridgeline works better.

In places with ample open ground and lots of convenient trees it is difficult to find just the right distance, these were too close, these were too far apart. I have a length of paracord with a long pushpin on one end, with knots at the minimal distance for 10’ and 14’ ridgeline orientation; when selecting a couple of trees for the ridgeline I can just stick the pushpin in a trunk and run the cord out to check for length.

Lotta possible tree choices in an open piney forest, these were just right, including space for the easily movable side windblock.

ImageP1060482 by Mike McCrea, on Flickr

That ridgeline paracord also has knots for the min/max day hammock spread; in the best case scenario I can hang the hammock under the windblocked tarp.

ImageP1070518 by Mike McCrea, on Flickr

About the “circus colors” a green or camo tarp is good if you plan to stealth camp, don’t want to be seen or have your site look like the Vegas strip. We have green and dark blue tarps; on cloudy rainy days it seems dreary dim under the tarp and a bit of colorful cheer is welcome. Also easier to spot your campsite after a day paddle away from camp.

When I ordered our Tundra Tarp I initially asked for green, thought about it and changed the color scheme to red/yellow/white. I haven’t regretted those circus colors.


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PostPosted: November 24th, 2021, 7:53 am 
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Location: a bit south ofWinnipeg
Otter Mel wrote:
You should also check this Canadian company for tarps!!:

https://adotecgear.com/tarps/


All DCF with tie outs made from strips of DCF, maybe not the best option considering the reason for the original post.

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PostPosted: November 24th, 2021, 10:13 am 
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Joined: June 22nd, 2001, 7:00 pm
Posts: 171
Location: Laurentian Hills, Ontario Canada
I don't think you can complain about people praising CCS tarps while you continue to denigrate them. CCS tarps are great; never had a problem. I have had problems with my MEC tarps though.


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PostPosted: November 24th, 2021, 11:04 am 
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slipper wrote:
I don't think you can complain about people praising CCS tarps while you continue to denigrate them. CCS tarps are great; never had a problem. I have had problems with my MEC tarps though.


That's an interesting opinion. Make sure to consider checking all your tie out loops before, during and after a trip just in case.


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PostPosted: November 24th, 2021, 2:26 pm 
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Mike McCrea wrote:
When I ordered our Tundra Tarp I initially asked for green, thought about it and changed the color scheme to red/yellow/white. I haven’t regretted those circus colors.


Sorry Mike, I wasn't refering to your tarp, personal choice is just that. I was refering to what is generally being offered by my local retailers. I do agree btw, dark green is dismal to be under, and hot in the sun. I prefer neutral-gray, and sand colours - the birds and animals seem to as well. Spending the day on a beach, sitting quietly under my tarp, and watching critters come and go is a favourite past-time. The natural colours don't seem to bother them. I've had sea-birds land around me, mink run through, and even had a coyote sitting on my chest once.


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PostPosted: November 24th, 2021, 2:52 pm 
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boat_mouse wrote:
Mike McCrea wrote:
When I ordered our Tundra Tarp I initially asked for green, thought about it and changed the color scheme to red/yellow/white. I haven’t regretted those circus colors.


Sorry Mike, I wasn't refering to your tarp, personal choice is just that. I was refering to what is generally being offered by my local retailers. I do agree btw, dark green is dismal to be under, and hot in the sun. I prefer neutral-gray, and sand colours - the birds and animals seem to as well. Spending the day on a beach, sitting quietly under my tarp, and watching critters come and go is a favourite past-time. The natural colours don't seem to bother them. I've had sea-birds land around me, mink run through, and even had a coyote sitting on my chest once.


I'm the same: I prefer lighter neutral colours - we spend a lot of time under our main tarp and the colour of the tarp causes the light to be that colour. With neutral light coloured fabrics we get more of a neutral light temp under the tarp. Moving forward I will focus on neutral coloured tarps.


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PostPosted: November 24th, 2021, 2:53 pm 
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Joined: March 26th, 2013, 9:27 pm
Posts: 530
Location: Winnipeg, MB
I had a CCS loop start to wear. I was using a Nite-Ize s-biner to attach a prussik a-la Hoop. The thin s-biner started to wear through the tarp's webbing loop. I added a small loop on Zing-It between the loop and the webbing loop and have had no more wear. It has been like that for about three years now.

My guess is that you got some bad cordage from Dan, or he had a bad batch of webbing. Doesn't matter, you had a bad experience and don't want to revisit that bad experience by buying CCS again.

I bought an MSR tent that I was unhappy with (Holler) I replaced it with another MSR tent because I thought the Holler was just a one off bad design (it was quickly discontinued). I replaced it with an MSR Papa Hubba and it lasted three seasons before it started leaking. I should've learned from my first experience.

Not criticizing CCS, I love their gear, but just saying I don't blame you for avoiding them after a bad experience.


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PostPosted: November 24th, 2021, 4:34 pm 
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Neil Fitzpatrick wrote:
Not criticizing CCS, I love their gear, but just saying I don't blame you for avoiding them after a bad experience.


I hope its clear, I am not critizing CCS either: I am just sharing my experience with one of their tarps. I bought it on the premise that their good reputation would result in a pleasant tarp experience. It didn't. I thought this would be of interest to people. It's certainly something to take into consideration. At the very least, not take webbing quality for granted, like we often do! I have never seen a tarp company specify the specs of the webbing they use. Now, from my experience with this, webbing is even more cititcal than the tarp material used! If a tie out breaks in wind it could cause a lot of trouble! Whatever a person decides about CCS is their own decision. I am just providing a data-point.


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PostPosted: November 25th, 2021, 9:25 am 
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Joined: June 28th, 2001, 7:00 pm
Posts: 2097
Location: Freeland, Maryland USA
boat_mouse wrote:
Sorry Mike, I wasn't refering to your tarp, personal choice is just that. I was refering to what is generally being offered by my local retailers. I do agree btw, dark green is dismal to be under, and hot in the sun. I prefer neutral-gray, and sand colours - the birds and animals seem to as well.


Boat_Mouse, no worries, I didn’t take it that way. We have green tarps, a heavy duty dark brown tarp that is dim as a cave, and a variety of others for different applications.

I have a “back porch” tarp for the tailgate end of the tripping truck, one side green, one side reflective silver for hot sunny desert use. That tarp provides the sheltered back pouch, extends out past the screened side windows so I can leave them open on rainy nights and provides a covered portico on either side so I can walk between the tailgate and front doors without getting drenched.

ImagePA010022 by Mike McCrea, on Flickr

Tested on a sunny summer day with reflective side up the wee bedroom inside the cap is fully 10F – 15F cooler than without the sun shield in place.

ImageP4273598 by Mike McCrea, on Flickr

A number of truck camper friends use that same system, rain or shine.

ImagePA020002 by Mike McCrea, on Flickr

For trips with seriously strong winds I use an old (25 years) 19 x 19 parawing. A true parabolic wing with catenary cuts. True wings are hard to find, and pricey; that one was Campmor branded in the mid-90’s and reasonably priced. Despite still being wind and waterproof, and of sound stitching and webbing, I would buy another today if I found another.

ImageP5061985 by Mike McCrea, on Flickr

The wind in that canyon is gusting 50mph and there are three deadmen buried off each of the low corners, and even then I needed to pile some rocks atop. Properly erected, in the correct wind orientation, there is nothing like a parawing, the parabolic “wings” airfoil lift, so there is zero flapping and far less stress on the stitching or webbing loops; the batwing shape is actually best with some wind to help firm it up.

There are only four webbing loops on that wing, one on each corner; zero wear on the webbing after 25 years of hard use. The downside to a wing is that the low side <> shape doesn’t provide a lot of people space, four in a pinch, two or three is better. And it only sets up one tautly equidistant way, so at some sun angles it doesn’t provide much shade.

ImagePA170435 by Mike McCrea, on Flickr

But in windy desert canyons or on the coast I’ll take that parawing every time. FWIW that is an MEC Mantis tarp on the left. Decent concept for the buggy north, a disaster on coastal beaches; the inner coating is picks up a layer of sand no matter how you take it down, which sprinkles down on your head the next time you put it up.

ImagePA150374 by Mike McCrea, on Flickr

The true wing works in wind, and the shape puts little stress on the fabric, stitching or webbing. I don’t even mind the bright blue.

ImageP2180690 by Mike McCrea, on Flickr


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PostPosted: November 25th, 2021, 11:41 am 
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Joined: March 23rd, 2006, 11:21 pm
Posts: 1271
Location: Burns Lake, BC
Here's another angle... operator error.

Maybe, just maybe, you had a helper or co-camper that "helped" setting up the tarp one or several times.
They have (or maybe you do) a practice of pulling the guy line through the tarp loop as fast as possible while hooking it up.
Depending on the materials, this will burn through or at least definitely weaken the tarp loop with the heat and friction that was produced while pulling the cord through.
That kind of damage could be done in one pitching of the tarp especially if the cordage was dirty with some abrasive material. (sand, dirt, ash, hand creams/oils, etc...)

I'm in the group of tarpists that leave my cords attached to my tarp unless they are needed elsewhere or in the way.
20' of heavy duty paracord on each corner and 6' pieces attached to every other tie out.

My lines wear out but I've never had any tarp loops fail because the girth hitch knot doesn't allow any movement once it's been tightened.

Maybe...?

I also find it hard to believe that this is a quality control issue as I'm another super happy CCS gear user.
I'll bet that there's some explanation that is being missed here.
How about asking Dan if he would lend you a tarp (or buy one with the option of returning) to test it out for your quality control checks.

Could be that your experience is an isolated one with specific circumstances.

Wouldn't it be awesome if you could experience the happiness that comes with having a piece of gear that fills all of your expectations?

Just my two cents.


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PostPosted: November 25th, 2021, 11:47 am 
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Canoeheadted wrote:
Could be that your experience is an isolated one with specific circumstances.

I was the only one who set it up. I camp with my partner only and she is not on tarp duty.

All I know is I bought what was supposed to be one of the best tarps and it didn't last 3 trips using the same set up techniques as I have for 15 years using MEC tarps. Never has a loop cut through on me before. Make of that what YOU will. I have made a decision about it for MYSELF: no more CCS tarps in my gear list. I simply can't put trust in them, the risks are too high.

Enjoy your CCS tarps. I am sure they are fine (check your loops!)

The cost of postage to ship things to and from Dan is too expensive. I'd rather just move on to another tarp company, including MEC if need be. I am looking seriously at AquaQuest. But now, I want to see the tarp before I buy it or have some way to return it for a refund if I feel it's not built well enough.


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PostPosted: November 25th, 2021, 1:09 pm 
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So far what I've gathered from AquaQuest is that their Safari webbing is grosgrain, probably nylon, 3/4" wide. The Defender webbing is the same except polypropylene. This is what customer support told me just now in email. Also they will acccept a return for full refund but the customer has to pay shipping back, as long as the item has not been used and in the original packaging. This way there is some recourse if the customer doesn't like the product, but with some cost involved.

What I am going to go with is an AquaQuest Safari 15x15 as a roof and a Defender 10x13 as a wall. Both in gray because I don't like the colour-cast with coloured tarps. This way I can keep the 15x15 out of high wind pressures and use a stronger smaller tarp for that. When not being used as a wall, the 10x13 can be used for other things and also for winter camping. Both these tarps come to the same I paid for the CCS 15x15 so that's pretty good too in terms of price. Plus I'll grab some other things from them too while I'm at it. Thanks for pointing out AquaQuest, I had not heard of them before!


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PostPosted: November 25th, 2021, 2:04 pm 
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Location: Freeland, Maryland USA
Canoeheadted wrote:
I'm in the group of tarpists that leave my cords attached to my tarp unless they are needed elsewhere or in the way.


Same here; the ridgeline with prussics and clips and corner guylines stay attached. The ridge and guy lines are each neatly bundled with (also attached) elastic hair ties. With a 10’ x 14’ Tundra Tarp that ridgeline is almost always set up at the 10’ across distance, so I can angle drop 7’ of one side for a wind block.

I am unlikely to “borrow” more tarp cord than needed for other uses, the tarp bag has its own dedicated various length guylines beyond the ridge rope and corner guys, and there is always a hank of paracord in the Spares & Repairs bag.

None of the attached lines are in the way. I use a ridgeline stuff sack, which is a godsend for erecting a 10 x 14 tarp solo, especially if it is windy. Up and down quickly and easily, and the tarp is kept off the wet, thorny or pine needle clingy ground. The ridgeline and prussic, combined with a ridgeline stuff bag, has made solo tarp set up amazingly fast and easy.

Canoeheadted wrote:
How about asking Dan if he would lend you a tarp (or buy one with the option of returning) to test it out for your quality control checks.


I get the sense that Plexus is done with CCS. And, with the return unfortunately porch pirated, and no opportunity for webbing failure forensics or replacement, I’m not CCS is further liable in any sense.

But, if Dan wants a quality control test, he can send me a multi-color 10 x 10 or 10 x 12, and I’ll put it up all kinds of wrong in all kinds of weather to see what fails first and how. Having once erected a Tundra Tarp bathtub over my tent I have demonstrated special skills in that area.

I expect a thorough experiment would take me four or five years, but I have time.


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PostPosted: November 29th, 2021, 11:46 am 
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I've used Hilleberg UL 10 tarp for extended periods in heavy wind and rain. Hilleberg products are expensive but they are also of the highest standard when it comes to design, materials and craftsmanship. Their Tarp 20 measures 14.4 x 14.4 feet. The UL weighs in at 3 lb 5 oz and the sturdier XP version is 4 lb 7 oz. I think these weights include their very nice guy lines and line locks.

https://hilleberg.com/swe/shelters/tarp ... etailsLink


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