Looking for suggestions on some solo whitewater playboating canoes for me to look into. Here's some background info:

- Already have an Esquif Pocket Canyon for solo whitewater tripping so not worried about having the ability to carry camping or other gear beyond some safety equipment and a pump
- I weigh 250 pounds so it's important that the boat has the capacity to handle my weight
- Having completed a solo canoe whitewater course at MKC I want to have a way to further improve my playboating canoe skills
- Want to have the ability to learn and then regularly roll the canoe

I am interested in your suggestions.

Shopping new or used? How do feel about having a heavy boat?

What about paddling style - do you like some speed & grace on class II technical runs, or are you looking to bomb down class III-IV creeks?

If you're willing to pay to for a new boat, options are way better now than they were a decade ago in modern Royalex stuff - sitting in an Esquif Zoom or Evergreen Solito among others was funny for heavy folks.

At about 225lbs I've happily paddled a MR Outrage and a Dagger Ocoee. Felt the Viper 11 was a little wet. Now I'm in an Esquif L'Edge Superlight. The new boats are "creekier" - shorter, blunter, wider, with great stability for surfing etc., but I kinda miss the leans and speed of the longer hulls.

When I was looking to replace my Ocoee, the limiting factor in selection was actually shipping - after looking at a few different hulls, the only one that easy or affordable to actually get was an Esquif. Came down to what boat I boat I could get more than what boat I wanted (not that there's anything wrong with the L'Edges!). Was really interested in 20/20 from Millbrook boats.

In L'Edge plastic type boats there's a few similar hulls. In a brief paddle I was impressed by a Silverbirch Agent 88. I didn't like the feel of the Blackfly Options as much.

If you want to go bigger, Blackfly (Octane 91 & Condor) and Silverbirch (Covert 10.5) both have larger versions, but to me the plastic boats start getting quite heavy in those sizes.

Outside of the heavy plastics, I guess there's the Blast, and maybe Esquif has a new large Zephyr?

Take a look at Millbrook if you're interested in composite canoe. Otherwise, if you check the web pages and reviews for Esquif, Blackfly and Silverbirch, that'll about have you covered.

Might just depend where you're located though.

P.

_________________
Learning to paddle is like learning a language:
It's easy to learn the basics, but will you be understood in a strong wind?

May I suggest a versatile design in a Prospector with 3-4" of rocker? Prospectors can perform impressively when used on edge.
I've an old and battered, umpteenth-hand, $400 Whitesell Piranha and an air-bagged Prospector, both rigged for solo

Hope you find your boat!

re: What about paddling style - do you like some speed & grace on class II technical runs, or are you looking to bomb down class III-IV creeks?

Both! Of the two my priority would be speed on grace on class II technical runs

Open to either new or used. Under 80 pounds is my preference.

Have been considering an Esquif Zephyr 2.0 in T-Formex configured for solo with straps and saddle.

Sounds like you're on the right track.

What about the Zephyr XL? Interesting that for these boats Esquif shows carrying capacity, and going by that, 250 lbs would be better in the XL.

Lots of similar-ish boats to choose from new, comes down to personal preference (and where you are in terms of whether there's a used market and what you can shipped to you).

80 lbs of weight is easy to come under, but that's a darn heavy "playboat".

SuperLight is about 43 lbs. Zephyr XL & Blast say 54 lbs.

Blackfly Condor is 64 lbs, and Silverbirch Covert 10.5 must be about the same. 10 lbs doesn't sound like much, but these heavier boats can feel like heavier work on the river.

Nice to have the choice. I think heavy are people lucky now, because they've started making smaller tandem boats (Zephyr XL, Covert 10.5, Octane 92), and we can solo those.

Good luck! P.

_________________
Learning to paddle is like learning a language:
It's easy to learn the basics, but will you be understood in a strong wind?

I actually meant to type XL earlier, not sure how I neglected to do it!

If you go the plastic hull way, the Silverbirch REBEL 11.3 or maybe the Blackfly Condor, might fit your bill--Mostly speed & grace on class II technical runs, with a bit of bombing down class III-IV creeks. Their other canoes probably lack speed and grace.

If you want an older style but capable solo canoe for your weight range, I like boat mouse's suggestion of a Whitesell Piranha or something similar.

A newer design with an edge would be the aforementioned Zephyr XL. The TwinTex version would be lighter and thus faster to accelerate. The T-Formex would be like Royalex.
Two canoes a much softer edge than the Zephyr are the Vertige or the Vertige X but the X is getting long and the Vertige might not offer the performance you are seeking.

_________________
Brian
http://www.JohnstonPursuits.ca

 

I greatly appreciate all the advice and suggestions that I've received here. I've been quietly doing some research for the past few months since taking the course so it's been nice to see some things confirmed and some new things discovered.

I did consider the Vertige X at one point however I thought it might be a bit too close to the Pocket Canyon and since I already have/love the pocket canyon for tripping it seemed like I could go for a more specialized playboat which I will likely use very rarely for tripping.

One thing I've appreciated with the Pocket Canyon is the T-Formex hull really allows me to worry a lot less when paddling shallow/bony rivers/creeks compared to my Swift Prospector 14 in Kevlar Fusion so ultimately the boat I chose was going to be either T-Formex or Royalex or something very similar.

After reading the comments here and reviewing my earlier research again I've decided to look into an Esquif Zephyr 2 XL in T-Formex. I've found one in my general neighbourhood and now I just need to go give it a paddle. This one comes with the Esquif factory outfitting which on one hand saves me doing the outfitting work however on the other hand I was looking forward to doing some more outfitting with the Mike Yee stuff (installed this on the Pocket Canyon).

Does anyone know what size floatation bags are recommended/used with the Zephyr 2 XL in Esquif factory outfitting?

Thanks again for sharing your thoughts and advice!

I think the Zephyr is a good way to go. The Zephyr has good edges and glide but doesn't demand the same level of attention that the Ocoee does. Just ensure to get the newer T formex version and not the older twintex layup.
Finding a used hull these days can be challenging so buying new is the way to go which really leaves you with Esquif, Blackfly and Silverbirch. The newer shorter plastic hulls tend to be pretty heavy and take a bit more time to get used to. If you do go this route, I'm about 20 lbs lighter than you and have owned a L'edge and Covert 9.3.

I'd suggest full size 60" bags for a boat that size.

FYI - there was a Zephyr sitting at Swift Gravenhurst back in August, not sure if that's near you or if it's still available but it might be an option.

I would love to try a Silverbirch Rebel! But, it's narrower than others, and I've heard/read it has a feel that isn't for everyone, so I'm less comfortable in recommending it as something to buy unpaddled. That, and I don't know how people are getting Silverbirch boats shipped to Canada. Seemed like a major barrier when I last checked.

But hey, if anyone is coming through Winnipeg with Rebel, gives us a call!!

Good luck jnoble. Zephyr XL seems like a great bet. Enjoy!

P.

_________________
Learning to paddle is like learning a language:
It's easy to learn the basics, but will you be understood in a strong wind?

Can't remember my password for the Cboats site, but here ya go, from my search 2-3 years ago with a similar question:

https://www.cboats.net/cforum/viewtopic ... ilit=heavy

P.

_________________
Learning to paddle is like learning a language:
It's easy to learn the basics, but will you be understood in a strong wind?

re cboats password,
https://www.cboats.net/cforum/app.php/help/faq#f0r6
I’ve lost my password!
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_________________
Brian
http://www.JohnstonPursuits.ca

 

I have a Blackfly Condor. It's a new boat for me, but my first impressions are really positive. It has an interesting hull that is a hybrid of a planing hull with hard chines for about 3/4 of its length, ending with a highly bulbous and rockered bow. So it sets up carves nicely, but is easily transitioned from one carve to the other (something I struggle with in long boats). So even though I'm small, I can move this big boat around quite easily. It's almost as fast as my Dagger Rival, but drier. It's much more forgiving than my Echoee. Yes, it's heavy at 66 lbs. It has a very high capacity (300+ lbs capacity), and can even be set up as a tandem, but I wanted this capacity for tripping.

I agree that the Esquif Zephyr XL would be a good, comparable choice for a big paddler.