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PostPosted: September 19th, 2023, 11:15 am 
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Location: Newmarket, Ontario Canada
It is so simple: bury your waste, PACK THE TOILET PAPER OUT or fully burn it in a SUPER HOT campfire. I am not a fan of the latter, because if YOUR do not do it right, it comes out on anything I might cook over the fire. I did not enjoy spending 9 days cleaning up each campsite (and at two I just could not get all of it before moving on) of TP because "you" could not be bothered to go out the the thunderbox. I know many places do not have thunderboxes, so you have to be a "Big Boy", and deal with proper disposal. No one wants to clean up after you. I have many suggestions what to do with whoever *hit right in the middle of the only rock available that was of a size and flatness to take a sent (and left the TP their too). Wonder if it was the same guy the pooped right in the middle one of the portages?

https://www.cleverhiker.com/blog/how-to ... kers-guide

Just because no one sees you leave it behind (and your conscience is so under developed it does not remind you), does not make it right just to leave it where your drop it, or toss it under/into the trees.
Those who have menstrual cycle- pack ALL your products out. Use a dedicated handkerchief to clean up after urinating, hang it off a belt loop- it will dry quickly. Rinse well a the end of the day and hang to dry- use a new one the next day if you like and hang the damp one off you pack. Good instructions are here: https://gnara.com/blogs/shefly-unzipped ... xNQ.RWSDfp

If you know your leaves, use them whenever possible. And don't leave used leaves where others can step on them

We carry our TP in a peanut butter jar, after having removed the toilet paper roll. This jar also includes a whistle, hand sanitizer and plastic zip lock sandwich bags. The TP goes in them plastic bag. You can use a larger one for group if you want, or individually collect, but it goes back to the garbage bag!

Some will choose to bury it, and I thank you. But make it deep enough that it will degrade. Cover it, like you should cover your poop, and than mark it with an upright stick, or put a crossed sticks on it, so that I don't dig/step in your waste.

And come prepared. Even provincial parks/ or preserves may have sites without a kybo such as anywhere on the French Rive Delta) Come prepared. A trowel, or even this sweet shovel https://www.leevalley.com/en-ca/shop/ga ... em=45K1562, that has certainly paid for itself, especially on the last trip!

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"I've never met a river I didn't like. The challenges are what we remember, and the experiences will make great memories for when I can pick up my paddle no more". Me


Last edited by cheryl on September 20th, 2023, 10:01 am, edited 3 times in total.

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PostPosted: September 19th, 2023, 3:07 pm 
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Joined: June 28th, 2001, 7:00 pm
Posts: 2822
Location: Freeland, Maryland USA
I hear you. I have moved along when I found a site festooned with more toilet paper flowers than I cared to police, and I was once the Stool Nurse on a Cholera ward. I had some *hitty jobs, including kennel boy at an animal shelter.

The dog runs were not splashing-feces fun to hose down, the cat cages were more enjoyable; open the cage door for some affectionate head bumps while changing the litter and laying down fresh newspaper. Aren’t you a sweet thing, I’ll pause to read the newspaper while you purr and give me some loving.

I don’t count on the availability of a thunderbox in unknown areas, and some people do a lousy shallow job of cathole digging with a flimsy plastic trowel. I’d prefer not to set my tent atop a pile of barely buried poo, drive a tarp stake into same, or excavate a hole to find a surprise.

There is a lovely beach site in Florida’s 10,000 islands, with an even lovelier tent spot hidden sheltered back in the trees. It would be a lovely sheltered tent spot, but I have never see that much excrement poorly and not-at-all buried in one place.

I am not fond of the “burn it in the campfire” method. Better than thrown in the brush as a turd blossom, but I question how thorough a “burn it” job the last group managed. Add that grossness to fire pits with scorched aluminum foil and melted plastic bits. I’ll pack out other folk’s garbage, but I have my limits.

If it is a no-portage lake or river trip in a frequented area I bring a bucket and wag bag toilet system.

https://myccr.com/phpbbforum/viewtopic.php?f=20&t=49226

Sometimes that private throne is simply a convenience. One of my favorite paddle-in swamp campsites in North Carolina (Merchants Millpond SP) has a composting Port-a-Jon. From my preferred site it is a long way away, up a surprisingly steep hill. Once the coffee hits I’m not making that hike with sphincter-clenched urgency.

A favorite barrier island paddle in site at Hammocks Beach (also NC) has a palatial bath house. Said bath house is over a mile from the best site on the Island. Across sand and dunes. Nope, I’ve never made the 2-mile roundtrip to that spacious bath house. Never will.

That wag bag bucket has become a critical piece of gear in a few areas.

Even if required gear a pack-it-out toilet system does no good if it isn’t used. Friends came off a toilet-mandatory desert river group trip with tales of one companion’s scatological ill-manners. For reasons best left unexplained (but understandable) each of them brought their own toilet system.

They first noticed that one guy’s campsite would reek of urine before they left. At the end of the trip they noticed that his used wag bag bucket was suspiciously light compared to theirs. He had been urinating on the ground rather than walking down to the river and sneaking off to (I hope at least) dig a cathole.

I had long ago decided never again to trip with him; he left garbage behind when he thought no one was looking, and horded his foodstuffs on a group trip when we were running low, while other were share and share alike feeding him. Don’t even get me started on his constant bumming smokes and hits of weed.

That was a lesson I only needed to learn twice; I believed some excuses the first trip. I would not be surprised if rocks near his site on that desert trip held a decades-to-decay surprise underneath. If fact I’d bet on it.

Seriously, WTF is wrong with people?

Rhetorical question, developing LNT habits may be a learned experience best taught in childhood. At some point it may be too late. A group of (no pun intended) “Who gives a crap” paddlers can destroy a site in short order. Not just human waste and garbage; taking that Boy Scout hatchet and chopping off every green limb within reach.

No apologies for the rant. It is a long damn drive to anyplace truly wilderness for me and I would prefer my more reachable paddling venues not be despoiled. If wishes were fishes I literally wouldn’t have to take that crap.


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PostPosted: September 19th, 2023, 6:24 pm 
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Joined: August 11th, 2002, 7:00 pm
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Location: Sunny Wasaga Beach
If you ran across twigs arranged in a Union Jack pattern that would have been me!

Was it just the TP that you found or real turds? I understand that TP lasts a lot longer than turds. The saving grace on our trips has been that most of the sites we chose had very little usage.

I am surprised that you found any Tboxes out on the bay. I posted my rant re the FRPP here years ago and wrote a long letter to the park sup't(to no effect) so I will spare readers my rant here(as Billy Crystal says "Don't get me stahted")

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PostPosted: September 19th, 2023, 6:59 pm 
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Joined: August 26th, 2008, 8:48 pm
Posts: 138
I doubt it would work with all the ignorant people out there but they need to post these kind of instructions at put ins, kind of like the fire extinguishing signs and special fishing regulations.
I feel your pain, one of Saskatchewans jems, the Barker Lake canoe area, has become unvisitable imo because of this problem. After the yearly whitewater festival it’s atrocious. My dog absolutely loves going there though….


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PostPosted: September 19th, 2023, 7:26 pm 
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Joined: March 15th, 2018, 6:04 pm
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Location: Ottawa
If the OP wants to spend 9 days cleaning camps, then do so. It doesn’t give them the moral superiority to dump on this site, for the rest of us to step thru.


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PostPosted: September 19th, 2023, 9:14 pm 
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Joined: June 23rd, 2001, 7:00 pm
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Location: Newmarket, Ontario Canada
Wotrock. Mostly TP, but yes, real turds (and yes, the ones on the campsite and the trail were under a day old). I think they need a pop up when you go to make your reservation at these back country parks-"BTW there may not be thunder boxes- watch this video/read this and come prepared", before they can register. Nope, no thunder boxes anywhere on the bay, or a number of sites just off the bay on the French. Was also ticked off that on two sites on the French, "someone" is cutting down healthy trees with a chainsaw, and then cutting the up for firewood. And no, it was NOT the park people (I checked).

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"I've never met a river I didn't like. The challenges are what we remember, and the experiences will make great memories for when I can pick up my paddle no more". Me


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PostPosted: September 19th, 2023, 10:28 pm 
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cheryl wrote:
I think they need a pop up when you go to make your reservation at these back country parks-"BTW there may not be thunder boxes- watch this video/read this and come prepared", before they can register. .


nice idea. i think would make a difference.

i think the larger portion of them are actually clueless + any spark of intuition that they should do something gets fast smothered by being turned off by the idea.

then a portion who are not clueless at all, who make straight up fully calculated choice to do it, just don't care, hit and run, won't be back anyway, peace out, etc.

the first group are the good guys.

the one who left it on flat exposed rock may have thought that he was a seagull.
that is not traditional practice of even the clueless.
same with portage guy. something wrong with him. just some crazies. can't fix those.


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PostPosted: September 20th, 2023, 6:35 am 
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Joined: June 28th, 2001, 7:00 pm
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Location: Freeland, Maryland USA
wotrock wrote:
I understand that TP lasts a lot longer than turds.


It depends on the environment. In the desert it can take a year for buried human feces to decompose. Cop a squat back in some crevice or below an overhang and future archeologists may find your coprolite.

https://sectionhiker.com/how-to-shit-po ... e%20desert.

From that article “It is also possible to get more than one bowel movement in each bag, but I usually don’t. It’s not particularly pleasant unrolling an already-pooped-in bag for reuse”

This is not true, or at least confusing. Unrolling an already used bag would be unpleasant, but on group trips we set out the wag bag bucket when we first make camp and roll it up for storage after everyone has had a go the next morning, a single wag bag will easily contain a half dozen deposits. When I am on a base camped solo trip a single wag bag, left in the toilet bucket with the lid closed, will last nearly a week.

Along desert canyon rivers where there can be a paucity of tent spaces, rock hard ground and frequent visitation pack-it-out is mandated for understandable reasons, but with the above examples of the French River delta or Barker Lake area pack-it-out may be a solution.

I don’t think threads on a tripping site about dealing with human waste present a sense of moral superiority, but merely a discussion of best practices, which certainly vary depending on the locale and frequency of visitation.


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PostPosted: September 20th, 2023, 8:00 am 
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Joined: August 11th, 2002, 7:00 pm
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Location: Sunny Wasaga Beach
remogami wrote:
cheryl wrote:
I think they need a pop up when you go to make your reservation at these back country parks-"BTW there may not be thunder boxes- watch this video/read this and come prepared", before they can register. .


nice idea. i think would make a difference.

.


It would also help if the FRPP provided Tboxes like the park supt told me they were in the process of doing over a decade ago.

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PostPosted: September 20th, 2023, 8:58 am 
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Wherever possible I try to use natural tp - leaves or moss and bury it with my "scat". TP is a last resort for me. The biggest pain is trying to dig a good cat hole in rocky soil.


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