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PostPosted: May 8th, 2021, 7:17 pm 
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A few years ago, at a very popular wilderness Adirondack lake, there was a black bear, who for an entire summer season would take a nightly swim from island to island, campsite to campsite, raiding unprotected food caches. I have no doubt he would also discover smellable food stached in a floating canoe near shore.

When I raced the first ever Yukon 1000 mile race, there were two requirements. One was to have 20kg (that's 44 pounds!) of food on board for every paddler. I was in a voyageur canoe with a crew of 7, do the math! With no place to reliably hang from trees, the second requiremen was that all food had to be in a hard side commercial tested and offiically certified bear resistant container because it was a legal requriement when passing through the Yukon-Charlie National Preserve in Alaska. For our first race we used a lockable large certified Yeti chest. For our second race that ridiculous food weight requirement was dropped and we fit all we needed in several hard side commercial bear canisters.

In easier locations, such as the Adirondacks, where hard side commercial canisters are in some places required (soft sided sack are not allowed), the most trouble i have ever had was from the determined teeth of mice and squirrels ruining backpacks and dry bags.


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PostPosted: May 8th, 2021, 10:55 pm 
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Location: Edmonton area
I honestly can't tell if you're trolling or not. Your seeming fixation with bears getting your food, to the point of considering how many breaths they would have to take to get at your submerged food, is Monty Pythonesque.

So, sinking anything other than a birchbark canoe in water to keep it safe; bad idea for lots of good reasons.

Slagging one of the most respected members of this site because you misinterpreted his good advice for your cockamamie concept, also bad idea.

Bears walk easy routes unless something off trail catches their interest. Hide your food in multiple locations downwind of your camp, on the ground, made as scentproof and camouflaged as you can. Mark the location with clip on trail markers. Try to site the locations so that you can have a decent view of them from a distance. That's it.

Hardly anyone hangs, and nobody sinks. That is about all there is to say about hiding food from bears.

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PostPosted: May 9th, 2021, 5:45 am 
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Location: Kanata
I think we're being trolled. Almost didn't respond yesterday, but gave OP the benefit of the doubt. Based on last response of 'sigh' - I'd say we've been trolled.


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PostPosted: May 9th, 2021, 6:58 am 
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Location: Geraldton, Ontario Can
I don't think he's trolling, he just didn't like the answers. I hope the OP continues with his tripping endeavours, lots of times, experience, good or bad, is the best learning tool. When I first started out, I had little money, and hit up a local deli for some olive barrels too. I tried to figure out the best pack arrangement to carry them, tried several things, with different degrees of success, and then saved up and bought a proper barrel with a harness. The olive barrels never went on another trip.

Spirited discussion followed by reflection is also a very good way to arrive a decisions.


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PostPosted: May 9th, 2021, 7:44 am 
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Joined: April 16th, 2003, 1:50 pm
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No that definitely wasn't trolling. Was it perhaps a strange case of someone looking for a more modern f**eb**k style exchange, running unexpectedly into an old-fashioned PHPbb forum? We know that doesn't happen very often.


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PostPosted: May 9th, 2021, 8:03 am 
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Joined: February 28th, 2018, 10:54 am
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Location: SW Quebec
I'll offer the scientific explanation, as I understand it (I am not a scientist nor particularly smart):

Your 9x9x16 (I'm assuming inches) vessel has a volume of 0.75 cubic feet. A cubic foot of water weighs 62.43 pounds. To sink your vessel, you would therefore need a weight greater than 62.43 X 0.75 (46.82 pounds).

Making some assumptions here - apologies...

Amazon lists a 6-pack of Mountain House Beef Stew as taking up 0.39 cubic feet and weighing 2.34 pounds. Let's assume you can stuff two of these in your vessel, giving a total of 4.68 pounds. Subtracting this from 46.82 gives us the additional weight needed to sink your vessel: 42.14 pounds.

I suppose that if all you are packing is freeze-dried, vacuum-sealed meals, then there really is no need for an airtight vessel - one could simply flood it with water. Then, the only weight displacement to overcome would be the contents of the food pouches. On the other hand, if all you are packing is freeze dried food, no animal is going to be able to smell it anyway.

Or you could just bring rice cakes - even my dogs won't eat those. That was a joke.


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PostPosted: May 9th, 2021, 9:07 am 
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Location: Waterloo, ON
Guyfawkes041....you read my mind!

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PostPosted: May 9th, 2021, 9:24 am 
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I have done this and can swear it really works, so everybody back off my buddy Wes.
Yes the principles of science kick in just when you least expect them to but with a little patience and determination I get it done. The sealed and secured items sink to the ankle depth required and can be safely retrieved when needed. So right around beer o'clock my cans come out of the lake fridge nicely chilled and make the perfect accompaniment to the food I've kept safe and secure in a meticulously clean food barrel kept stashed safe and sound off trail off site in the woods. Voilà. Pas de problème every time.
Never had any bear beer raids yet. They haven't found my food either.


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PostPosted: May 9th, 2021, 12:21 pm 
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Joined: March 23rd, 2006, 11:21 pm
Posts: 1207
Location: Burns Lake, BC
Odyssey, so to be clear, you put just your beer in 12" of water and your food goes in a barrel on land?
If yes, then then you are misleading WK as submerging all of your food is quite different than a couple of cans of beer.

If no, then please show some evidence of this method working. (I'm sure you've filmed this... no?)

I can't believe that anyone would try anything like this more than once, but hey!... please prove me wrong.
I look forward to seeing actual evidence of this working.

This seems to be just another "I'm so scared of bears that..." hypothetical problem and solution by a person that thinks about their activity more than actually doing it.

Hey WK... are you respectful enough to engage in this conversation that didn't go exactly as you theorized?


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PostPosted: May 9th, 2021, 12:51 pm 
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Joined: October 19th, 2013, 6:30 am
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What lake is this beer located in?


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PostPosted: May 9th, 2021, 3:12 pm 
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Location: Rattlesnake Pond ME
Odyssey wrote:
I have done this and can swear it really works, so everybody back off my buddy Wes.
Yes the principles of science kick in just when you least expect them to but with a little patience and determination I get it done. The sealed and secured items sink to the ankle depth required and can be safely retrieved when needed. So right around beer o'clock my cans come out of the lake fridge nicely chilled and make the perfect accompaniment to the food I've kept safe and secure in a meticulously clean food barrel kept stashed safe and sound off trail off site in the woods. Voilà. Pas de problème every time.
Never had any bear beer raids yet. They haven't found my food either.



hmmm split personality B?


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PostPosted: May 9th, 2021, 5:02 pm 
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Joined: December 9th, 2012, 9:57 am
Posts: 377
D.B Cooper wrote:
What lake is this beer located in?


Ha ha ha. Good one!! Are you the only one with a sense of humour?

My mistake for not taking the OP seriously though. Wes could do his dunk tank experiment and I'll even toss in some ideas.
1) Use a mesh sack filled with rocks as the anchor when in use, otherwise empty mesh sack weighs little amongst the gear.
2) Leave the hard sided olive containers at home, and instead use a dry-bag that is air purgeable. Likewise the food contents should be in sealable bags devoid of as much air as possible. All that contained air is buoyancy and working against you.
3) Submerge the food bag only as far as "necessary". No need to drop it to the bottom.
4) Might even use a fishing float bobber attached to a leader to remember where the food is parked.
5) Draw straws, do the rock paper scissors, or jello wrestle around the fire to see who gets the PITA task of dealing with the food bag.
It may be worth an experiment, but it seems too bothersome a method to me; much the same reason I gave up hanging years ago.
And no canoehedted I have not tried this myself, nor do I intend to. It seems an utter waste of time to submerge a food container but Wes might disagree. Let him do it. It may be worthwhile to him.

ps I forgot to add that Recped has always been a gentleman and his response to the OP once again proves this. He was misunderstood. All responses have been helpful and informative IMO.


Last edited by Odyssey on May 9th, 2021, 7:03 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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PostPosted: May 9th, 2021, 5:48 pm 
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Joined: March 15th, 2018, 6:04 pm
Posts: 55
Location: Ottawa
wesleykonrad wrote:
sufficient weight

It depends on:
-Weight in/of barrel,
-Specific gravity of weights used to sink barrel,
-Fresh or Salt water,

Example
-It would take over 25lbs of rocks to sink a 20lbs barrel of that size in fresh water
-it would take over 171lbs of PVC(Submerged canoes) to sink an empty barrel of that size in salt water

On the plus side, a sealed barrel isn't required if suspended upside down, like a bell,


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PostPosted: May 9th, 2021, 5:55 pm 
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Joined: January 3rd, 2010, 5:59 pm
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Location: Kanata
Good one Odyssey,
Almost spit my coffee out at jello wrestling!


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PostPosted: May 9th, 2021, 7:20 pm 
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The "sigh" suggests to me that he came looking for a FB style argument and he was disappointed he did not get one---no nasty name calling and mud slinging but just some good solid well meaning advice from very experienced people. It says 'troll' to me. Good luck in finding a better source of canoeing and camping knowledge out there on the internet.

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