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 Post subject: Tippy canoe search
PostPosted: July 11th, 2020, 9:52 pm 
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Joined: August 28th, 2004, 5:26 pm
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Location: n/e ontario
We have been shopping for a super light canoe for the past few years. The 20 year old, 50 lb Langford prospector still serves us well - - especially on the big waters south of Killarney. But time has come to treat our aging bodies to something under 40 pounds for interior portages.
Problem is, we find that most new canoe designs are for people with little experience. The bottoms are flat, making them feel stable. But they drag through the water. We prefer little initial stability and good secondary stability. We don't need to go fast, but we do want each stroke of the paddle to be efficient. Swift seems to have discontinued their better hull shapes.
Ideas? We want to be able to try before we buy... new or used.


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 Post subject: Re: Tippy canoe search
PostPosted: July 12th, 2020, 3:45 am 
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Joined: June 7th, 2012, 1:10 pm
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Clipper Tripper
https://westerncanoekayak.com/tripper-176-canoe/

Fast, straight and light. Handles wind and waves and takes a huge load. Fun empty too.

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 Post subject: Re: Tippy canoe search
PostPosted: July 12th, 2020, 7:16 am 
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Joined: December 29th, 2002, 7:00 pm
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Location: Bancroft, Ontario Canada
Wenonah makes some very light canoes... the most efficient tandems may be either the Minnesota II or the shorter Escape. The border is still closed so test-paddling at Oak Orchard near Rochester won't be possible for some time... There are Wenonah dealers in Ontario, not sure if test-paddling is possible.

https://wenonah.com/WhereToBuy.aspx

Bluewater's Freedom 17 Tripper is efficient and their lightest weighs in at 38 pounds.... contact them for ideas where to go...

ABITIBI & CO (INFORMATION CENTER ONLY)
2905, ave Granada
Rouyn-Noranda, Quebec
1 (819) 764-3254

http://www.abitibico.ca

And if you don't like the popular Swift models, Swift might be able to custom build a John Winters design for you... maybe the Kipawa, fast and tippy.

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 Post subject: Re: Tippy canoe search
PostPosted: July 12th, 2020, 7:55 am 
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Location: Enkhuizen
frozentripper wrote:
[...]
And if you don't like the popular Swift models, Swift might be able to custom build a John Winters design for you... maybe the Kipawa, fast and tippy.

Which shows that fast and tippy are quite subjective:
I would not call the Kipawa fast and tippy.
Quick and efficient with very good stability also in difficult situations, yes.

The Swift Quetico 15' and Cirrus had a stability that I may call somewhat tippy,
and the Cirrus was indeed what I would call fast
and the Quetico 15' very quick and efficient.

Dirk Barends

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 Post subject: Re: Tippy canoe search
PostPosted: July 12th, 2020, 8:27 am 
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Hm. Kipawa not fast. But i have read several times that some felt it was tippy. Maybe they were drinking and paddling at the same time.

John Winters' wife felt it was not fast... OTOH maybe the clock suggested otherwise.

John Winters comments "Out of the hundreds of canoes I have paddled, none has ever been so versatile or so much fun to paddle as the Kipawa. On our first wilderness trip in the prototype, my wife commented that it didn't seem very fast. Only when we arrived at the first portage six kilometres away in much less than an hour did we realize that our sedate 30 strokes per minute made it fly! What we had been missing was the absence of the noisy bow wave and wake normally associated with speed. I believe the Kipawa is the best argument yet for the scientific approach to canoe design."

http://www.greenval.com/kipawa.html

Thanks for your thoughts Dirk. Missed your posts since the rowdy early saloon days... if there is a canoe mold that Swift has available for custom order, the Kipawa may be it and something may be available for test-paddles.

Yes, subjectivity is at the core of canoe choice, I have read some paddlers complaining that a Prospector is far too tippy. Again, maybe they were drinking.

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 Post subject: Re: Tippy canoe search
PostPosted: July 12th, 2020, 8:43 am 
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frozentripper wrote:
[...] if there is a canoe mold that Swift has available for custom order, the Kipawa may be it and something may be available for test-paddles.
[...]

From what I have been told by the dealer here,
when I wanted to buy a Quetico 15',
you have to order 5 of them from Swift to get one...?

The Kip is (still) my favorite allround tandem:
https://sites.google.com/site/barendsnoot/skip
although I don't paddle tandem anymore,
otherwise I would be paddling a Quetico 15' now
as the Quetico is now for sale in the UK:
http://www.solwaydory.co.uk/products/pa ... e-quetico/

Dirk Barends

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 Post subject: Re: Tippy canoe search
PostPosted: July 12th, 2020, 8:54 am 
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Location: Bancroft, Ontario Canada
Again, thanks for the info, Dirk... maybe out of luck on that one.

Just can't seem to drop this... gotta stop wasting time like this, since most of these comments will be thrown out the window after the first test paddle.

So anyway, Charlie Wilson's comments follow below and, jeez Louise, not only is it fast but very fast. And efficient. After this I'm onto something more sensible.

--------------------------

Swift has tandem series from two different designers. The Winter's boats are flared, strongly asymmetrical with differential rocker. They are very fast/efficient but tend towards narrow floors at the bow stations. Flare suggests the boats fit rangy paddlers with wide shoulders and longer arms.

Among the Winter's boats the Kipawa is the standard week long trip fav for compact folk. The Winisk is a foot longer and holds more; either larger folk or more food for a longer trip with more speed. The Temagami is the wide ride; holding significant burden, but at a price in forward efficiency.


https://myccr.com/phpbbforum/viewtopic.php?f=20&t=41177

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 Post subject: Re: Tippy canoe search
PostPosted: July 12th, 2020, 11:00 pm 
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Joined: March 18th, 2019, 7:54 pm
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Location: Brampton
Personally I would rent a few boats before making a choice like yours. You have very specific requirements, and not the kind that can be met by looking at shiny ads, or even reading the specs on each boat. You need to paddle a boat before you buy it.

Do a few days in Alogonquin, the Petawawa, or down the French, or something similarly busy, in a rented boat a few times. Most outfitters will give you a hefty discount if you offer to buy a boat that you just rented.

For me, I like good secondary stability, but not primary (I like to be able to sway the boat if I need to), so I like something with a fair bit of tumblehome. I like something that I can ride over a wave with, or power though it - so not too much rocker, but enough that I can shift my weight as the situation warrants. I haven't found anything yet.

You have very exacting requirements. Spend a year renting a bunch of different boats.

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 Post subject: Re: Tippy canoe search
PostPosted: July 13th, 2020, 2:17 pm 
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Swift has all of the John Winters molds available. They will make you a kipawa or winisk (my favourite) They are only making these during the off season as they are fully busy making keewaydins and prospectors and moving the molds in and out is too much work.

At the Oxtongue Lake location you should be able to demo the Kipawas etc. Call to confirm.


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 Post subject: Re: Tippy canoe search
PostPosted: July 13th, 2020, 2:53 pm 
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Location: Kingston, ON
A canoe that often flies under the radar is the Souris River Prospector 17.5. Everyone looks to Souris River for their flat bottomed Quetico's. The Prospector 17.5 has a much more rounded bottom. 4" of symmetrical rocker and is only 34"wide. In my opinion this is their best boat for the experiences tripper.


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 Post subject: Re: Tippy canoe search
PostPosted: July 14th, 2020, 10:24 am 
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Alchemist (made by H2O) Prospector
Used only these days


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 Post subject: Re: Tippy canoe search
PostPosted: July 14th, 2020, 11:03 am 
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Location: n/e ontario
MartinG wrote:
A canoe that often flies under the radar is the Souris River Prospector 17.5. Everyone looks to Souris River for their flat bottomed Quetico's. The Prospector 17.5 has a much more rounded bottom. 4" of symmetrical rocker and is only 34"wide. In my opinion this is their best boat for the experiences tripper.


This sounds great...but we are also looking to downsize a bit to 16' if possible. The big ones have a lot of windage both on the water and on the portage!


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 Post subject: Re: Tippy canoe search
PostPosted: July 14th, 2020, 12:06 pm 
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red pine wrote:
[...] The big ones have a lot of windage both on the water [...]

Mainly when (too) lightly loaded. When properly loaded this should
be reasonable with the right kind of design.
But indeed smaller is easier, if you go lightly and
accept the possible limitations of a bit overloading on occasion.

Dirk Barends

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 Post subject: Re: Tippy canoe search
PostPosted: August 24th, 2020, 1:11 pm 
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Hi Dirk, just wanted to say thanks for all the write-ups on this website on the Quetico 15. I found one on Kijiji near Kingston earlier this month and ended up going with it. Thanks in good part to all of your info as there is little to be found online about this beautiful boat! After 2 trips and some solo day paddling I am already in love.

I can echo the Winter's quote from above, when the boat is fairly loaded (quite sure I am overloading it with 2 people, dog + gear) it doesn't feel fast, but seems to result in some serious miles covered!

I'll post some photos when I get a chance


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 Post subject: Re: Tippy canoe search
PostPosted: August 24th, 2020, 6:39 pm 
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Prospector16 wrote:
Alchemist (made by H2O) Prospector
Used only these days

There's one on Kijiji right now!!

https://www.kijiji.ca/v-canoe-kayak-pad ... ?undefined


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