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A Patriot's Guide to Camping During a Trade War
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Author:  Krusty [ July 10th, 2018, 9:20 am ]
Post subject:  Re: A Patriot's Guide to Camping During a Trade War

FYI About Canada's dairy quota system:

Canada's supply management is implemented via a quota system. Farmers can only sell as much as their quota allows. To produce and sell more the farmer must purchase additional quota from other farmers. My neighbor just sold his quota for his little family-run 40 cow operation for a million dollars. Not the whole farm, not even the cows, just the piece of paper. That's $25,000 per cow's worth of quota. :o
A fellow down the road is expanding his herd. He runs a more modern efficient operation: giant tractors and silos, machines chop bedding and motorized carts distribute it, feeding is likewise mechanized, cows have microchips in their ears etc. Judging from the size of the building he's putting up it looks like he'll be adding 60 or more cows, paying $25,000 up front for the quota for each. Typically this would be borrowed from the bank. The cost of borrowing is effectively factored in to the price he'll receive for his milk, so if he runs an efficient operation (he does) he'll be OK with the interest payments.

So the system we've implemented is basically a way of transferring money from consumers to banks. This sucks, but I can't think of a better way to implement the supply management system.

Author:  Hiker Neil [ July 10th, 2018, 3:37 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: A Patriot's Guide to Camping During a Trade War

Krusty wrote:
Neil wrote:
Buying local is anti-trade.
Only if you are paying a premium, supporting a less-efficient supplier. Efficiency and productivity, which is/should be reflected in a lower price, leads to prosperity for all.

Products from South America and California cost less at my grocery store than those produced locally, except for a short period of time towards the end of summer when local produce is very inexpensive.

Perhaps labor costs, growing conditions (better soil, more sun etc.) use of technology and economy of scale are some of the reasons.
As for transportation costs does anyone care to provide data on the phenomenon of "last mile"?

I understand the reasoning behind buying local and on the surface it makes sense but if everybody, all over the world, only bought local where would we be? Where would Canada's economy be? At least there'd be no trade wars!

Author:  littleredcanoe [ July 10th, 2018, 5:18 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: A Patriot's Guide to Camping During a Trade War

AARGH! I bought grape tomatoes today. No one here raises Grape Tomatoes but I like the size for my roasted corn jalapeno pepper salad.

They were from WHAT? Oakville ON..

Author:  wotrock [ July 10th, 2018, 7:37 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: A Patriot's Guide to Camping During a Trade War

I am more or less of the same mind as Chris Randall and I suspect many more are as well. There are no hard and fast rules--no 'policy' for individuals, but a more flexible decision making process based on several variables. I would call that sensible and intelligent, as opposed to gov't "policy", which is often neither.

Author:  Splake [ July 10th, 2018, 8:02 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: A Patriot's Guide to Camping During a Trade War

littleredcanoe wrote:
AARGH! I bought grape tomatoes today. No one here raises Grape Tomatoes but I like the size for my roasted corn jalapeno pepper salad.

They were from WHAT? Oakville ON..


Impossible! They paved over the last vestiges of farmland in Oakville a good decade ago! That is clearly a case of false advertising. Right up there with all the fake Tilapia in the frozen fish section of the grocery store.

I'm not even really saying that tongue in cheek. I used to live in Oakville a couple of blocks from the edge of farmland. I'd be surprised if there was enough farmland left in Oakville to grow a single tomato plant.

Author:  chris randall [ July 11th, 2018, 8:54 am ]
Post subject:  Re: A Patriot's Guide to Camping During a Trade War

Splake wrote:
littleredcanoe wrote:
AARGH! I bought grape tomatoes today. No one here raises Grape Tomatoes but I like the size for my roasted corn jalapeno pepper salad.

They were from WHAT? Oakville ON..


Impossible! They paved over the last vestiges of farmland in Oakville a good decade ago! That is clearly a case of false advertising. Right up there with all the fake Tilapia in the frozen fish section of the grocery store.

I'm not even really saying that tongue in cheek. I used to live in Oakville a couple of blocks from the edge of farmland. I'd be surprised if there was enough farmland left in Oakville to grow a single tomato plant.


Probably raised in a glass house so no farmland needed!

We can buy local tomatoes here in Manitoba during the winter. A local farmer built an array of glass houses and raises tomatoes, peppers and cucumbers all year long. (We personally don't eat salad in winter) Heated by natural gas and lit by hydropower. The whole set up lights up the night sky for many miles around. They do collect their own rain water for irrigation and recycle the nutrients though so not all bad!

It really is very complicated for individuals and governments to do the right thing. What worries me is when politicians wrap themselves in a flag and spout policies that while supposed to be protecting the little guy are really about making themselves and their families wealthier

Author:  littleredcanoe [ July 11th, 2018, 9:34 am ]
Post subject:  Re: A Patriot's Guide to Camping During a Trade War

If they can grow tomatoes and cucumbers and lettuce in Iceland and tomatoes year round in Maine I am sure farmland is not necessary for a hydroponic operation
Shall we talk weed? Same goes. It’s legal here

Author:  wotrock [ July 11th, 2018, 9:44 am ]
Post subject:  Re: A Patriot's Guide to Camping During a Trade War

littleredcanoe wrote:
Shall we talk weed? Same goes. It’s legal here


Yeah, but is it as good as our BC Bud??

Author:  Splake [ July 11th, 2018, 10:55 am ]
Post subject:  Re: A Patriot's Guide to Camping During a Trade War

Hmmm, I'm pretty sure that greenhouses would still be zoned agricultural land. I can find a few remaining areas zoned as greenbelt, parkway belt or natural but I can't find anything zone agricultural in Oakville.

https://maps.oakville.ca/gxmaps/?map=map05

Milton still has meaningful areas of agriculture and Burlington likely has a fair bit of agricultural land too.

The potential relevance to this discussion is understanding where we get our food from. This article is a few years old:

https://www.cbc.ca/news/canada/hamilton ... -1.2951737

At the time Ontario imported approx. 2X as much food as it exported. Regional specializations were seen. A strong 'buy local' movement would require, and potentially create momentum for, a shift in the mix of crops/animals produced.

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