It is currently January 24th, 2021, 10:09 am

All times are UTC - 5 hours




Post new topic Reply to topic  [ 57 posts ]  Go to page 1, 2, 3, 4  Next
Author Message
 Post subject: What's in Your Pin Kit?
PostPosted: December 7th, 2004, 5:12 pm 
Offline

Joined: July 10th, 2001, 7:00 pm
Posts: 90
Location: Oakville, Ontario Canada
I’m planning on making a pin kit. What it’s in your kit? Do you use the same kit for extended trips versus day trips?

Any info is appreciated!

Thanks, Glenn


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject:
PostPosted: December 7th, 2004, 5:41 pm 
Offline
User avatar

Joined: July 21st, 2004, 7:58 pm
Posts: 524
My kit includes:
* 80m 9mm static line;
* 4 prussic loops
* 4 locking gate carabiners
* 4 4m sections of webbing
* 4 rescue pulleys, including one prussic-minding pulley.

I have this with me all the time (in a tandem boat). The only difference between a pin on a day trip and one a couple of weeks long is the length of the walk out.


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject:
PostPosted: December 7th, 2004, 6:48 pm 
Offline
User avatar

Joined: July 9th, 2003, 11:48 am
Posts: 1530
Location: Back to Winnipeg
I always carry a few caribiners and a 20m throw rope of 11mm floating line. I also have a little bag with some prusik loops and webbing slings and a pulley. This is for ww day trips, and some others usually have the same, often with more rope etc. in the (relatively) nearby vehicles. For a longer trip I might get a bit more organized, but a few biners, pulleys and prusiks/slings should about do it.

More commonly, a limiting factor in salvaging a boat might be the width of the river, your length of line(s), possible anchor points, etc. I guess on a bigger trip all I'd add is a longer rope.

P.


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject:
PostPosted: December 7th, 2004, 7:44 pm 
Offline
User avatar

Joined: November 23rd, 2001, 7:00 pm
Posts: 1981
Location: Coldstream, Ontario Canada
Glenn you`ve seen mine, haven`t you ? I carry it in a North water " line across river bag", it holds about 150' of 3/8" and every thing in it which is in Peters list. All your binners should rate nothing less than 18Kn and they should have locking gates. And if every boat in your party has a big water throw bag, you should have enough line to set up any Zdrag or Pig-Rig.

_________________

Al Greve http://www.canoewateradventuring.ca South Western Ontario's canoeing specialist



Top
 Profile  
 
PostPosted: December 7th, 2004, 8:30 pm 
Offline
User avatar

Joined: February 18th, 2003, 7:00 pm
Posts: 683
Location: arnprior, Ontario can
where is the duct tape?
Seems that is frequently needed, though more so after a pin.

Think I would say my kit would seldom be the same for any to given outings.

For a solo paddle a knife, life jacket, pumpkin protector, my paddle and the ropes tied to the ends of my boat.

To an organized trip with at least the minimun
2 pullies
6+ bieners
rope, never too much (within reason and consideration of the nature of river)
webbing and prussic cord
rescue equiped lifejacket (with knife)
throw bags
saw and/or axe (doubles as camping grear but well noted for rescue use)
fishing rod
paddles
tent poles
duct tape
and so on......

A couple of summers ago I was with a bunch of friends (5 canoes) discussing just this topic around the campfire, this discussion brought about an inventory of rescue gear which had otherwise not been planed but was assumed.
In total:
nearly 40 bieners
4 pullies + 2 mini nylon clip overs
enough webbing to make a set of new seats
8 throw bags
plus nearly 500 feet of rope
2 axes
4 saws
7 roles of duct tape
3-4 different rescue knives
3 gps units
6 compasses
.........
Was this a canoe trip on a class 2-3 river or an Everst expedition?

two rescues were made that trip for some others who met bad luck, the only equipment the was sucessfully imployed was a fishing rod, two spare paddles, 50 feet of rope and a bit of the duct tape.

The fishin pole to snag onto a submerged bow line of a pined canoe, which popped of easy after the painter was caught and pulled. The paddles were used after the Z drag failed to pull off a baddly pinned canoe (simple but extriemly powerfull capstan and vector pull tecniques)

All this to say
-gear needs to be matched to river conditions
- always must considder that rescue potentially involves a trapped person
-during an emergency all gear / things become potential rescue equipment
-impotaint to considder who brings what and how much
-KISS in my experience the simplest techniques and equipment worked best
-accessability to equipment, if the lead boat has the equipmet it's of little use


PS never had a problem hanging the food pack since I bought a rescue pully


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject:
PostPosted: December 7th, 2004, 8:40 pm 
Offline
User avatar

Joined: February 18th, 2003, 7:00 pm
Posts: 683
Location: arnprior, Ontario can
Because a pin kit can be used to free a trapped person I can't see why it would be advisable to down scale a kit simply because it is a day trip.


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject:
PostPosted: December 7th, 2004, 9:26 pm 
Offline
User avatar

Joined: July 9th, 2003, 11:48 am
Posts: 1530
Location: Back to Winnipeg
Dreamstream,

Doesn't your recent observation about not scaling a pin kit contradict your first post about never having the same kit? i.e., comparing a solo paddle to an organized trip, and a class 2 to an Everest expedition. Also, are we addressing pin kits alone, not combined with other repair, first aid or other equipment?

But you're right, it's more relevant that my ww day trips are on small class 2-3 rivers than the fact that they are day trips. That said, there are definately times on day trips when I may have less rope and not have a saw, for example, than if I were on an extended wilderness trip. It also comes down to the difference between being in a full-sized boat vs. a solo playboat vs. a tiny kayak.

However, to rescue a trapped person, you're pretty much limited to quick-access throw ropes, biners, slings, pulleys, etc., because in the time it takes to deploy the whole works for a high line across a river etc., it would be a recovery operation anyway, no?

Good point about lots of the rescue gear being in the lead boat, I'll bet that happens a lot!

Looking forward to more replies on a good thread.

Pat.

p.s. what's a "capstan" and a "pig-rig"


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject:
PostPosted: December 7th, 2004, 10:20 pm 
Offline
User avatar

Joined: November 23rd, 2001, 7:00 pm
Posts: 1981
Location: Coldstream, Ontario Canada
Some interesting points made. And yes Pat Glenn`s question was that of a pin kit for lack of a better name. And in keeping with KISS the list which Peter has provided is as simple as they come, but yet will provide a rescue team the equipment to set up for most rapped boat situations. A compounded system with four pulleys can provide up to a 16 :1 ratio. Not compounded a 9 : 1 ratio.

As far as a trapped person ( leg entrapment ) , to date there only has been some ideas thrown around. Through rescue 3 International which is the overseeing body for WRT and SRT`s program I and II, there has not been any confirmed procedures that have been proven in a real rescue situation.

Pat a Pig- rig is a system which piggybacks off an independent hauling system giving you a 4 :1 ratio or more. You would use this system when more rope is needed, in which that your first z-drag may not have given you.

_________________

Al Greve http://www.canoewateradventuring.ca South Western Ontario's canoeing specialist



Last edited by Alan Greve on December 7th, 2004, 10:27 pm, edited 1 time in total.

Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject:
PostPosted: December 7th, 2004, 10:25 pm 
Offline
User avatar

Joined: February 18th, 2003, 7:00 pm
Posts: 683
Location: arnprior, Ontario can
Yes there is a contradiction, and I think it's one we all face daily.
It becomes a question of risk management.

The approche is like driving a car, yes it has dangers, there are ways to minimize the risk, but does everyone always follow them? No, most still speed from time to time, drive after dark, or in bad weather and hope that the set of tires will last the season.

When the weather is like it was here today i'm driving less then the speed limit I am in my 4x4 being passed by honda's. For me that like paddling an unknown to me river with a less experienced group or a group I don't know well, all precautions are taken. But to go out on a local river with some strong paddlers it is hard to justify that same degree of displin. Do we bring an EPRIB or not?

Also say I am out by my self, potentially there is the chance that I will come accross some one in need, and therefor one should be prepared as one thenselves would hope that if they were in trouble and someone happened along they would help or be able to attempt to help. Here the conflict deepens, I dont belive that the phychy of a solo (by them self) WW paddler factors on the aid of others in there risk management system, and therefor they adopt a "look out for me" stratgie that is esential to that activity. A lone paddler who depends on the aid of others when calculating risk has one foot in the grave and another on a banana peal.

There have been monent when I would have not had all the equipment to aid others, but thus far, knock on wood, I have been ready to lend a hand each time a problem has come up. However I always have two paddles and 70 feet of rope with the exeption of C1. With simple tecniques like capstan pulls there is less need for complicated gear in all situations two paddles and some rope will work.

the Capstan pull is where two paddles are used like an X with the rope wound around them it is possible to create an incredable pulling force (dont use your best paddles though). one person can produce a force of over 3000 lbs, which is far more than would be possible with a simple Z drag.

Capstan pull

Pros: low tech, minimal equipment, high force multiplication, easy fast set up

Cons, slow rate of pull, risk injury from spinning or breaking paddles, no quick release, short pull distance


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject:
PostPosted: December 7th, 2004, 10:35 pm 
Offline
User avatar

Joined: November 23rd, 2001, 7:00 pm
Posts: 1981
Location: Coldstream, Ontario Canada
Some very good points ! And that is why I believe that everyone that wishes to river travel should take some kind of river rescue training.

_________________

Al Greve http://www.canoewateradventuring.ca South Western Ontario's canoeing specialist



Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject:
PostPosted: December 7th, 2004, 10:44 pm 
Offline
User avatar

Joined: February 18th, 2003, 7:00 pm
Posts: 683
Location: arnprior, Ontario can
another interesting simple tecnique is the Tonsmiere pull, I think thats how its spelled.

that uses an ore or like leaver, a biener and rope to give a 25:1 or greater advantage.

tie a clove hitch around the ore, then run the free end back to a biener or pully at the anchor point and back to be wraped 4 or five times around the shaft of the ore. further up the shaft to create a fuclrum. The ore is pushed forward and then rotated to take up the slack a prusik can be used at the anchor to extend the length of pull and resetability.


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject:
PostPosted: December 8th, 2004, 12:04 am 
Offline

Joined: June 25th, 2001, 7:00 pm
Posts: 3197
Location: Kanata, Ontario Canada
Regarding body recovery vrs rescue Depends on how a person is trapped, if you can get a tag line across the river and a conscious enough victim to get it underarm chest hight or if you are lucky, piggy clip themselves to it, you might have time to get someone set up to go out and help get them out of the obstruction. (foot entrapment is what I'm thinking of) if you can keep their head above water then you are fighting hypothermia but still buys you more time.
oh and to the list I'd add a laminated cheat sheet because I'm after forgetting the set ups; good reminder guys, time to pullout the books, tie up the trees in the yard and give the neighbours more reason to think I'm nuts. :D


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject:
PostPosted: December 9th, 2004, 8:04 pm 
Offline
User avatar

Joined: November 23rd, 2001, 7:00 pm
Posts: 1981
Location: Coldstream, Ontario Canada
You`re correct Gail, it will depend on the type of entrapment, how far from shore, how deep the water and so on..... The problem is if the victum is having problems breathing, it will only be time before they will weaken and succumb to the force of the water. So time is a factor. So how fast can you set up ? And do you have other rescue tecniques so that you can fall back on if the first method fails.
But as I said before, there has not been a tried and proven method for a rescue with a live victum. They have all turned out to be recoveries.

It was just a few weeks ago where there was a situation which we got a rope to a swimmer in the middle of a class V, he had the rope, but with the force of the water let go and was swept over a drop into some very nasty stuff ! He was now in a part of the rapid where we could not help him. For his efforts he only lost his pants and broke a leg. :o He was one LUCKY guy !!!!!

There has been a few other times that I thought I was going to witness a drowning.

_________________

Al Greve http://www.canoewateradventuring.ca South Western Ontario's canoeing specialist



Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject:
PostPosted: December 10th, 2004, 9:39 am 
Offline

Joined: June 25th, 2001, 7:00 pm
Posts: 3197
Location: Kanata, Ontario Canada
Here's a plug. If you aren't interested in a full swift water rescue course, there is a course designed by the "International Rescue Instructors Association" or perhaps it's certified by....anyways it's called "Rescue for River Runners" it's a two day instead of 3, a little less intense and more geared to running rivers instead of the SRT programme which I believe has components that are designed to be built on for the other programmes such as high angle and Emergency techs. Anyways, it is offered by SWAT at Palmers by Mike Deroches www.madawaska.com I'd higly recomend Mike for wilderness first aid or river rescue or any programme of study for wilderness pursuit, the guy knows his stuff. I've taken 2 courses from him.

As for the near misses, haven't had enough time on the water yet my friend to have experienced first hand, just throw bag stuff with enough time to get someone out before they got near serious trouble. Heard of a friend getting pulled down in center slot, but no leg entrapments. As a community of paddlers, we should pay alot more attention to our rescue skills as well as paddle skills.


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject:
PostPosted: December 10th, 2004, 12:20 pm 
Offline

Joined: July 10th, 2001, 7:00 pm
Posts: 90
Location: Oakville, Ontario Canada
Thanks for all the input…

In the past, I’ve always relied on others for the pin kit.

We had a situation last weekend, where everyone seemed to have a bit of the “someone else will bring it” or “it won’t happen to us” attitude. Anyways, the day eventually ended with everyone safe, however it was a real learning experience, especially in my case, where I’ve become a little slack in following all the w/w paddling rules I learned when first getting into this activity. For an account of the day’s events, check out:

http://www.farhoumand-sims.com (go to the what’s new link)

or

http://www.kapn.net/vvcc/ (go to trip reports link)


Top
 Profile  
 
Display posts from previous:  Sort by  
Post new topic Reply to topic  [ 57 posts ]  Go to page 1, 2, 3, 4  Next

All times are UTC - 5 hours


Who is online

Users browsing this forum: No registered users and 2 guests


You cannot post new topics in this forum
You cannot reply to topics in this forum
You cannot edit your posts in this forum
You cannot delete your posts in this forum
You cannot post attachments in this forum

Search for:
Jump to:  
Powered by phpBB® Forum Software © phpBB Group