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PostPosted: October 10th, 2007, 9:39 pm 
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Joined: March 11th, 2006, 2:04 pm
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Location: Kitchener, Ontario, Canada
Hi all,

I am trying to work towards the skills necessary to canoe wilderness rivers for longer trips (with kids/family). To this end, am I better off starting to run smaller rivers in a tripping canoe, building up experience, or would I be better off working with a smaller solo canoe, learning to play more and learn how river features work?
I have a fair bit of flatwater experience, and I am also working on whitewater kayaking and am a Level 1 sea kayaker.

Any help is appreciated.

Mike A.
Kitchener


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PostPosted: October 10th, 2007, 11:31 pm 
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Location: Wakefield, Quebec
joat wrote:
Hi all,
I am trying to work towards the skills necessary to canoe wilderness rivers for longer trips (with kids/family). To this end, am I better off starting to run smaller rivers in a tripping canoe, building up experience, or would I be better off working with a smaller solo canoe, learning to play more and learn how river features work?
I have a fair bit of flatwater experience, and I am also working on whitewater kayaking and am a Level 1 sea kayaker.
Any help is appreciated.
Mike A.
Kitchener


:o

8)

Heyyyy Mikey-Mike

First- get the hell out of Kitchener
(there's too much readin' 'bout canoeing going on there) 8)
I know, I know, extended family Christmas stuff n' all that
they won't miss you, you'll be back
Pack up that mini-van and go West young Man.

These Ontario Rivers, strong, black and fast
forget it, too many rocks
Big Black Sharp Rocks, unnecessary obstacles
and too technical for loaded boats of chillens

Go West near the Mountains, Alberta is Good
BC is impossible and you end up fishin' for Salmon in the Big Blue anyways
in a Kayak.

What you need to gain experience fast is paddling White Water Mountain style
Load up the Fambly, dog too, and push off.
Those Rivers of azure are highways going downhill
keep your paddle in the water and watch the scenery go by.
The kids will hardly notice they are confined in a small area
and by the time their little bums get itchy
it's time to go home.
The brisk Mountain air will make your Wife's complexion nice and rosy
and you can show off with an empty boat in Places like
Devils Elbow and Big or Little Fisher rollers on the North Saskatchewan.
Yes, the rivers are shallow sometimes and you pick the wrong channel
but so what, the sun's hot and you won't feel the sting of the ice water
with all that adrenolin flowing through your veins of
a n t i c i p a t i o n

5 years
that's all you need.
Yes the water is cold- it's not about swimming out there
its about being with your family
and going on an adventure together.

Get out that map of Alberta right now, close your eyes and put your finger
down, any place is good, there's a job waiting for you and your Wife (Optional)
and your Boss won't mind if you take off for those 4 day long weekends,
his extended cab Pickup is packed already.

Trust me on this
we lived it,
our kids turned out real good
and we still paddle wayyy off the grid.
Good luck with your quest!

Yt,
Siren1

:wink:

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PostPosted: October 11th, 2007, 2:08 am 
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Joined: July 9th, 2003, 11:48 am
Posts: 1525
Location: Back to Winnipeg
Hmmm, different take on some of Siren1's points -

take your 5 years, and learn in Ontario, where the black waters are warm,
and occasionally drop into restful pools

save the non-stop, ice-cold rivers for later,
you won't be enjoying the views - too nervous
not that I assume you'll relocate your family West just to paddle whitewater, based on Internet advice!

I really miss warm water
and the more you're not afraid to swim, the faster you learn!
let the rivers teach you things by the ways they flip your canoes
learn in Ontario where the consequences are insignificant,
learn by error and error, test some theories
try sketchy things until you find that you've ended up right-side-up!
(ideally under some sound instruction or mentorship)

As to your question, I don't think it matters whether you get going on your whitewater in a tandem or a solo - the same thinking applies to both: it's about reading the currents, and about stability, and the angle, speed and tilt of your canoe. All relative to each other.

What kind of canoe doesn't really matter (though solo boats are less forgiving if you're unsure of too many things). People tend to progress from tandem to solo, but just because it's always been done that way by most canoeists doesn't make it right. I think more people should jump into little whitewater canoes sooner - sure it doesn't make sense to traditional canoeists, but if the newbie doesn't know any better/different, it's amazing how fast they can learn! I don't know why courses on river canoeing don't teach rolling early on. That said, if you'll be tripping tandem, you may as well learn tandem.

Bottom line, what ever type of canoe you're interested in, or will make it easier for you to get out more frequently. Word of caution though, if you try solo, you could trigger a whole new level of interest!

What kind of river can matter - try to get in some practice on rivers that are the same scale/flow as the ones you plan to travel. High-volume rivers are different then little technical rivers.

Regardless of the size of the boat or river, or the province, just get out and paddle some moving water!

Have fun, Uboat.

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Learning to paddle is like learning a language:
It's easy to learn the basics, but will you be understood in a strong wind?


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 Post subject: wow
PostPosted: October 11th, 2007, 7:56 am 
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Joined: March 11th, 2006, 2:04 pm
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Location: Kitchener, Ontario, Canada
very poetic.

thanks for the responses; as you say, the more boat time the better

Mike


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 Post subject:
PostPosted: October 11th, 2007, 8:14 am 
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Joined: December 2nd, 2002, 7:00 pm
Posts: 3731
Location: Grand Haven, Michigan U.S.A.
Mike,

I'll give another spin. I'd start by paddling as much as you can locally within your skill set. Go to places like Algonquin on a week trip on lakes and mild rivers. This gives you a basic understanding, and help fuel your dreams. If you plan to run whitewater... go take a class. I don't care where... but Ontario has some awesome canoe schools. Tell them what you want to learn... how to run whitewater for tripping. Don't be afraid to take a few more classes, because it gets you into bigger water in a safe environment. You'll likely find yourself wanting to do more than just run whitewater in a tripping situation, and so let it just flow. Experience is about getting out there and doing it... the more miles of different water you experience the more you've seen and the more you will feel comfortable when looking at something intimidating. That's where that whitewater instruction comes in. Then start searching around for people who want to trip in the same places that you do... and start doing trips. You'll make mistakes, but if you are careful the mistakes will be minimal, and you'll learn what to do and what not to do. As to the type of boat you paddle. I think if I was only going to own one boat it would be a solo. In a solo you can do all the same strokes that you do in both ends of a tandem, plus you learn many more that are totally solo. So you sort of kill two birds with one stone. If you can trip confidently in a solo.... you can very quickly adapt to a tandem, so long as your partner has the same skills as you.

So get out there and do it... and enjoy it.

PK


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 Post subject: helloooo Patrick!
PostPosted: October 11th, 2007, 9:39 am 
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Posts: 692
Location: Wakefield, Quebec
yarnellboat wrote:
. . . try sketchy things until you find that you've ended up right-side-up!
Have fun, Uboat.


oh goody, I get to use the wagging finger . . .

8)

:-?

Lookatit- that name 'U-Boat'
and whyyy do you think We all call him that???? hmmm?

Quote:
. . try sketchy things until you find that you've ended up right-side-up!

brazen, absolutely brazen
?sketchy?
cuz he's usually upside down in trouble somewheres
submerged with his helmet on!

He knows nuthin about ferrying around his precious little bundles
avoiding the big stuff
having a sneaky little lick against them sometimes

Quote:
not that I assume you'll relocate your family West just to paddle whitewater, based on Internet advice!


:tsk:

NOT so fast Mr. Yarnelli not so fast . . .
I'm not only selling a faster way to learn how to canoe (and I'll address that POINT later)
I'm also selling a whole new lifestyle!!!
Western attitudes are kinda different than here in the East.
Hell, they are so desperate to get you all out in the great outdoors they want to start early and teach your kids how to shoot guns and hunt wild game!
Like I illustrated previously-
about your Boss being suited up taking an extra long weekend . . .
if you are not at your desk on Friday in On-tair-i-air-i-o
someone else will be warming up your chair by Monday.

As for the warm water . .puh, overrated
all that free warmth makes you waterlogged and your toes get all mushroomy
Yah, yuk.

Quote:
let the rivers teach you things by the ways they flip your canoes


see- he's relentless- Bash Helmet on and all!

Quote:
learn in Ontario where the consequences are insignificant,


About those c o n s e q u e n c e s . . .
I've seen more grave markers on those Ontario Rivers than I ever did out west,
Some Ranger back in 1908 slipped on some rocks and drowned up at Nordegg.
that's it!
Oh, waitaminit, some swiss guys bought it on the Maligne, Yakkers in a Canyon . . . (pursed lips, nodding head)

Nope, those ICY waters teach you respect
they make you humble in Natures Kingdom.
and because the rivers are so fast
you PAY ATTENTION to where you are going and what you are doing
even over the din of your family.
Yee-haaa the rollers all you want, hey learn Slalom!
and get ready to position yourself for the ledges
you'll see those before the Glacier above you starts to drip.


Quote:
Regardless of the size of the boat or river, or the province, just get out and paddle some moving water!


Amen to that!
:clap:

Siren1muttering and walking away. . who'd believe Internet advice . . . hmf

:P

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Goethe


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 Post subject:
PostPosted: October 11th, 2007, 1:11 pm 
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If I was looking to learn whitewater and would be paddling whitewater with my family I would take the paddling members of my family too.

You will be travelling as a team. Each end of the boat has a different job. In moving water there is no such phrase as "I am just the bow person". In many ways its the harder job.

Your partner will benefit from the learning too and she will feel better about the experience...otherwise a canoe trip for her will be a set of commands from you.

Dont do that to her if there is another way/


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 Post subject:
PostPosted: October 11th, 2007, 1:39 pm 
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Posts: 692
Location: Wakefield, Quebec
redsoxnation wrote:
If I was looking to learn whitewater and would be paddling whitewater with my family I would take the paddling members of my family too.
You will be travelling as a team. Each end of the boat has a different job. In moving water there is no such phrase as "I am just the bow person". In many ways its the harder job.
Your partner will benefit from the learning too and she will feel better about the experience...otherwise a canoe trip for her will be a set of commands from you.
Dont do that to her if there is another way/


:o
Well that's a mouthfull for someone who says:
Quote:
If I was looking to learn whitewater


:-?

seems like you know all about Women and their needs too.
Quote:
she will feel better about the experience...otherwise a canoe trip for her will be a set of commands from you


Listen up . . . Sock-Puppet
:wink:
Some of us like being Bossed around by the guy behind us
because face it
what Woman alive would trust her preciousses in a tippy boat heading for:
a)a cliff
b)a garden full of boulders
c) and 6 foot icy water waves?
o b v i o u s l y
she has a Man who thinks he knows what he's doing and has the skills to take
his whole famdamily out with him.
yes the 'orders' will be barked from the stern,
everyone will get used to the chain of command,
that's what the Captain does
until everyone knows what their 'job' is.

sock-puppet . . . hey that's a good one
I wonder if it will . . .
sound of record being scratched

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We are shaped and fashioned by what we love.
Goethe


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 Post subject:
PostPosted: October 11th, 2007, 7:59 pm 
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Joined: October 9th, 2007, 2:49 pm
Posts: 28
my my you are lacking something tonight...
Scratching post?
Catnip?


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 Post subject: hunh?
PostPosted: October 13th, 2007, 3:36 pm 
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Joined: October 16th, 2004, 11:11 am
Posts: 692
Location: Wakefield, Quebec
redsoxnation wrote:
my my you are lacking something tonight...
Scratching post?
Catnip?


:o



Image



8)

_________________
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Goethe


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