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 Post subject: Mad River Rampage
PostPosted: April 8th, 2008, 11:19 am 
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Joined: March 23rd, 2005, 9:22 am
Posts: 287
Location: Wenatchee, WA
Does anybody know anything about this boat? I have a chance to buy one fully outfitted for $600. It is long by today's standards for a solo ww boat. I am five feet nine inches tall and weigh 170. I am used to longer boats however, and find the price attractive. It has a Mowhawk saddle, thigh straps, and flotation bags.


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PostPosted: April 8th, 2008, 9:58 pm 
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Joined: July 9th, 2003, 11:48 am
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Location: Back to Winnipeg
Hi John,

You might to search cboats.net for some comments.

I believe it's a boxy predecesor to the Outrage X. I've heard they make a decent litttle tandem. Not sure how often you cross the mountains, but I think there was someone in Seattle at PTTC that was basically giving one away!

PY.

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 Post subject:
PostPosted: April 11th, 2008, 10:25 am 
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Joined: March 23rd, 2005, 9:22 am
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Location: Wenatchee, WA
Pat-
Thanks for your reply. It does not sound like a Rampage would be ideal, but for $600 including outfitting it is tempting. Am I right in thinking that a fourteen foot boat will take big waves better, but be disadvantaged in a rock garden situation?


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PostPosted: April 11th, 2008, 10:43 am 
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Joined: June 25th, 2001, 7:00 pm
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Location: Kanata, Ontario Canada
When you said rampage I thought Fantasy
here's what cboats has on it:
http://www.cboats.net/c_db/list.php?typ ... me=Rampage

where you live is probably a big factor in wether the price is good or not.
600 doesn't strike me as a steal for an early 90's boat....decent I suppose. If you have access to getting a boat from cboats I'd suggest you be more choosey

for 600 we got an outfitted Spark in alright condition
seen captions go for around that price if you are hooked on big boats.


at your size you could paddle anything
WW tripper or play boat?

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PostPosted: April 11th, 2008, 10:57 am 
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Location: Grand Haven, Michigan U.S.A.
John, I've been following this thread... but felt compelled to toss in a few cents.

Bigger boats are genenerally considered "drier" soley because they have more volume, and that usually translates into floating higher and surfacing faster after a drop. But way, way, way more has to do with design.... things like how blunt the end of the boat is, and how the hull transitions in cross section through the bilge and up to the rails, or how deep the hull is. All these things work in combination to determine whether a boat sheds water in a certain circumstance or whether it fills with water. The same can be said for the handling characteristics in a rock garden... a 14 foot canoe with no rocker requires 14 feet of open water to to a complete spin in mirror calm water, but more than that at speed. Rolling the ends out of the water shortens this, shortening the hull shortens this, increasing the rocker shortens this. Again, the combinations start making this way more complex than simple statements.

So most of these things come down to what do you expect the canoe to do, and what do you really want to do. Back when the Rampage was made, the design perception on solo boats was to use the boats volume to make the canoe dry. So boats were bigger, loaded full of floatation and rapids were run. More rocker was added... to the point that within a few years... new whitewater hulls were 14 feet with massive amounts of rocker (like 8 inches at each end). They turned, were dry... but what the whitewater canoeing public wanted changed... So canoes became shorter, less rockered, some had edges for carving, others removed the sheer to roll better, and some were built specifically to bring paddlers into open canoeing.

So today, the Rampage is "outdated." That just means that the high-end canoeists are doing something different than the Rampage was designed for. Mad River built the boat to get people who had never run a rapid, or only paddled a tandem into a solo boat, in hopes that they might buy a Fantasy (or whate ever the next Mad River Solo would be in the future... It was the Outrage) a couple years later. So if that's what you want from a solo canoe... then there is nothing that says a Rampage is a bad boat for you. It's still going to work great. But, if your end is to surf the face off every little glassy wave, or to start creeking, you're learning curve might be shortened considerably.

Finally, an outfit OC-1 (with floatation) for $600 sounds pretty good. But as Pat pointed out... there are plenty of Rampages out there for half that. But it might cost you $300 to get a beat up boat shipped to you too, and then find out you need $50 for thighstraps, and another $100 for floatation. So, I'll leave the economics to you.

But, I suggest you try the boat. Meet the current owner, try the boat, bring a beer or two to share with him, and see what you think. Maybe a $600 Rampage is just the boat YOU need!!

PK


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 Post subject:
PostPosted: April 14th, 2008, 8:28 am 
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Joined: February 18th, 2005, 12:41 pm
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Location: Denver, CO
Rampage was built from 93 thru 99. If you have a chance to check the serial number, you should be able to determine how old it is. If its 93, tell the guy $600 is too much for a 15 year old boat, and offer $400, and see what he'll let it go for.

$600 for an outfitted boat isn't a bad price at all, though getting a long boat through a rock garden can be more work. On the other hand, a longer bigger boat is a lot better for multi day tripping, or even overnight trips with camping gear.

So you buy the boat and don't like it. So what. Sell it for $400 and consider the difference as "rental fees", and look for something else.


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 Post subject:
PostPosted: April 15th, 2008, 4:24 pm 
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Joined: March 23rd, 2005, 9:22 am
Posts: 287
Location: Wenatchee, WA
Fellow Paddlers, Sorry for being slow to reply. Only my office computer has my password stored and I forget what it is! Thanks for all the information, especially the long reply from Paul Knorr. To make a long story short I did a 180 degree turn and am buying a Wenonah Advantage! I made my decision in large part based on this forum. I discerned that the Mad River Rampage was not an outstanding deal at $600. and not a boat I would be particularly pleased with. Pat's description as a big refrigerator stuck. Now I know you are all thinking a Wenonah Advantage..........huh?, say again??. Well its like this- I love to paddle rapids, but I don't get to do it that often; kids, the yard, and work get in the way. On the other hand it is real easy to steal an hour and a half or two hours and paddle flat water. I have been paddling both flat water and white water in a Wenonah Argosy. I am now getting picky and would like a dedicated flat water solo, and a dedicated white water solo. It just happened that I came accross the flat water solo first. I am picking it up used on a deal I am happy with. Probably I won't get a white water solo this year, and will continue to paddle rapids in the Argosy with spray skirt. More than one new boat a year might not go over at home and I have six canoes now. This forum is a great source of canoeing expertise- the best actually. Oh, congratulations to Alan Greve's daughter for the write-up in Canoe & Kayak.
John


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 Post subject:
PostPosted: April 16th, 2008, 7:42 am 
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Joined: June 25th, 2001, 7:00 pm
Posts: 3197
Location: Kanata, Ontario Canada
John,

Start now to look for next years boat. Draw your acceptable "go fetch" line on how far you are willing to drive to aquire.
No one here knows your location, or what your goals are so we can be of limited service in your search. The more detail you give the less conjecture and guessing you'll get in return
Just be patient, keep an eye on the various club boards and cboats for your given acceptable area and figure out what is a "deal"

for example...if big boats are what you're after and complete outfitting then this has the potential to be a better deal.
http://cgi.ebay.com/Whitesell-Whitewate ... dZViewItem
many happy trips in your solo.
Cheers

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 Post subject:
PostPosted: April 16th, 2008, 10:40 am 
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Joined: March 23rd, 2005, 9:22 am
Posts: 287
Location: Wenatchee, WA
Gail-
I live in Wenatchee, Washington about three hours from Seattle and three hours from Spokane. I paddle the Columbia River, which is damned and sections of the Wenatchee River which have Class I through III rapids. This is kayak country and there are not many single bladers around.

The Whitesell boat looks like it would be a good one, but obviously on the wrong side of the country. Portland, Oregon or Vancouver BC would be about the limit for me to go get a used boat. As, I say I think I have just spent my boat budget for this year.

One thing I am curious about- The description of the Whitesell boat says the pedestal is hollow. I am really interested in that concept. I am a professional photographer and would like to take a camera along. Where to put a pelican case in a boat filled with air bags has me scratching my head. Maybe a hollow pedestal is the answer.


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 Post subject:
PostPosted: April 16th, 2008, 11:01 am 
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Joined: June 25th, 2001, 7:00 pm
Posts: 3197
Location: Kanata, Ontario Canada
Cool, I'll file it away in my filters of "people looking" there are a couple of very active clubs in that area if memory serves me correctly....some legacy Dagger models in recient years for fair prices......your jem will come along...cboats is majority east coast.

as for hollow pedistal...it won't be big enough to fit a pelican for a Dseries body and lens or any professional make up.....maybe a point and shoot waterproof but we carry those on the person.
Good for lunch or sunscreen...... back up contact lens.....it is a circular port hole type opening usually
I'm not famliar with the Mohawk or perception saddles; the local flavor in our neck of the woods is MikeYee...or Beluga...some others catching on ....TommyT or maybe Little Red could give you a better lowdown as the Mowhawk and p[erceptions saddles I've seen were North eastern USA boats

put your pelican (standing up in the bag cage, beaner to the webbing and then inflate your bag over it.....when you get out to get artisitc remove and replace air in bags before pushing off again
I've seen custom buckled cross webbing that allows easy access to bag cages...this is pretty easy to do from what I hear

the bag cage is a safe place...I don't know if you recall my post a few days ago about a friend losing his boat and camera..... it took a pretty decient rapid I wasn't there but the description was class 4 and having done that section in lower water, it is a fair rating....boat went over lip, swimmer rescued....boat flipped, got munched for a couple seconds and got away and recoverd 4 kms downstream...camera case didn't move and contents dry

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 Post subject:
PostPosted: April 16th, 2008, 11:44 am 
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Location: Back to Winnipeg
John,

Bad news (for your budget). Three outfitted Esquif solo boats have recently been listed on cboats.net: Vertige, Nitro, Detonator. Located in Portland. Prices seem reasonable.

Pat.

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 Post subject:
PostPosted: April 16th, 2008, 12:00 pm 
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Joined: June 25th, 2001, 7:00 pm
Posts: 3197
Location: Kanata, Ontario Canada
500 for the nitro seems pretty good

the vertige is a nice big boat as well....DougB picked one up reciently and intends to use it as a white water solo tripper? anyways Doug has a nose for a deal so maybe chat him up on what he's seen
anyways depending on conditon you might be able to shave some of the 700 asking price...... way better than the rampage IMHO

here's the chap Big P was talkin about:
http://www.cboats.net/cforum/viewtopic.php?t=7958438

anyways, we'll honor your not till next year :wink:
even though I think we've all renigued on that before and with 6 boats in your quiver......forgive us for being skeptical :lol:

oh and Doug probably can give you "smooth it over with the wife" advice too.... :wink:

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 Post subject:
PostPosted: April 16th, 2008, 1:41 pm 
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Location: Cambridge, Ontario
Quote:
One thing I am curious about- The description of the Whitesell boat says the pedestal is hollow. I am really interested in that concept


John, those old perception saddles are pretty neet. Bulk head style with a molded seat at the back so you can sit up and stretch your legs. They're completely hollow, so you can stuff a fair amount of stuff inside and the screw top opening is water tight. But like Gail suggests, the opening isn't very big - anything you put inside can't have a diameter bigger than your fist. I have one of these but can't use it. The saddle is only 6" high, and I'm too big to fit it.


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 Post subject:
PostPosted: April 17th, 2008, 1:24 pm 
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Joined: March 23rd, 2005, 9:22 am
Posts: 287
Location: Wenatchee, WA
Groannnn- If I wasn't buying a Advantage, I would be traipsing down to Portland and getting one of those Esquif Boats. Fact is the Advantage will get more use, even though I love WW. I am selling my one and only sea kayak, and buying the Advantage. The left over $$$ is new couch money. It would be domestic suicide to spend it on canoe #7. Nice to know such deals exist, and maybe next year. Meanwhile I will be running Clas III by the seat of my pants in a Wenonah Argosy.
John


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