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PostPosted: December 15th, 2004, 9:57 pm 
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Location: Sanbornton, NH, USA
Here's a neat idea--use this link to see a sliding seat in a beautiful canoe and a stern-facing yoke attached to the same apparatus that holds the seat.

www.woodsongcanoes.com/wood_song_contents.htm

I put a sliding seat in my recently completed kevlar solo canoe because I try to do efficient single portages. I try to keep everything in one pack ; to trim the canoe I wanted to be able to adjust the seat rather than moving gear around. I aim to have all my gear in one pack that rests behind me.


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PostPosted: December 15th, 2004, 10:06 pm 
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Location: Brampton, Ontario Canada
I just completed a strip Osprey this past fall and attached a sliding seat I purchased directly from Swift. After only taking it out 6-7 times this fall for strictly day trips, I can't say that I used it at all to change the trim. Next year when I take it on a few trips, I may have a different opinion but right now, I'm not so sure I will keep it on.

Ray


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PostPosted: December 16th, 2004, 5:18 pm 
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Used to have a sliding seats in several canoes. Our Wenonah got some deformed in an accident. The seat wont slide any more. It is where it is. The deformity was less than 1/4 inch and doesnt affect performance.of the boat but has paralyzed the seat.

Another boat got whacked by the tree and the whole sliding apparatus broke. I look it as another breakable gizmo that I can personally do without. I also dont miss the factory tracks biting into my legs when I heel the boat to the rail. Its all a matter of personal paddling style.


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PostPosted: December 17th, 2004, 4:35 am 
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My Wenonah sliding seat tubes were bent using the clip on yoke which they make for their sliding seat solos.
I have a replacement on its way to me now, but if this fails too I am going to replace the tubes with thick wall alloy. Sure it will weigh more, but weight saving at the expense of some thing actually working is just no good at all. :(

Although kinked quite badly, the seat will still slide, but one more portage and I rekon its toast, so I'm replacing it now.

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PostPosted: December 17th, 2004, 9:08 am 
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Location: Bancroft, Ontario Canada
Shippy,

Quote:
Here's a neat idea--use this link to see a sliding seat in a beautiful canoe and a stern-facing yoke attached to the same apparatus that holds the seat.

www.woodsongcanoes.com/wood_song_contents.htm


Hmmmm.... are you sure that yoke's stern-facing - it appears to be at the midpoint, with the seat close and aft. This is one thing I found uncomfortable in some canoes, the yoke positioned too close to the seat so there's no room for knees when sitting and stretching out occasionally on those long paddles. Yes, I know only tourists and lilly-dippers would ever admit to sitting in a canoe to get some relief from those dents forming in the kneecaps.

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...to trim the canoe I wanted to be able to adjust the seat rather than moving gear around. I aim to have all my gear in one pack that rests behind me.


Again, another point for comfort and convenience - having the pack in front makes it easier to get to when something's needed and the option to shift the pack to adjust center of gravity forward or backwards in winds, etc, is always there.

For me, the sliding seat's another complication that might break at the worst possible time and a more durable one bolted on would be more reliable in the long run. Shifting the pack towards the bow with a shove of the paddle, or reaching forward and pulling it back seems like the least troublesome way to get trim adjusted.

Rick

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PostPosted: December 17th, 2004, 6:39 pm 
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Location: Sanbornton, NH, USA
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Hmmmm.... are you sure that yoke's stern-facing - it appears to be at the midpoint, with the seat close and aft.


You may be right--if you are, it's not a good idea. I thought it was the other way because I didn't consider the possibility of draping my knees over the yoke and having the "points" jab into the back of my knees. I agree that kneeling jammed between the seat and yoke would quickly become uncomfortable.


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Again, another point for comfort and convenience - having the pack in front makes it easier to get to when something's needed and the option to shift the pack to adjust center of gravity forward or backwards in winds, etc, is always there.


I've done most of my trips in a small Hornbeck canoe where I don't have the luxury of puttng a pack in front of me. My pack barely fits behind me and so the only way to trim the boat (and maintain my all-in-one-pack rule) is to move the seat. This involves unbolting the seat and thwart and substituting a longer thwart and bolting in the seat closer to the bow. When I made this larger boat, I incorporated the idea of a moveable seat. One problem at a time! Time will tell if the complication of a sliding seat and the action of Murphy's Law will lead me to scrap the idea.


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PostPosted: December 18th, 2004, 7:37 am 
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Doug wrote:
Greetings,

Is a sliding seat in a "solo" canoe a MUST?


Doug


No. :)

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PostPosted: December 18th, 2004, 8:32 am 
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John,
Can I take a week long trip with one pack and still have a trim / level (Osprey)canoe?
wind / wave concerns?

Thanks,
Doug

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PostPosted: December 19th, 2004, 4:32 pm 
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Doug wrote:
John,
Can I take a week long trip with one pack and still have a trim / level (Osprey)canoe?
wind / wave concerns?

Thanks,
Doug


I use two packs. One small one for food etc. and a larger one with the rest of my stuff. I kick both around to adjust trim when paddling putting the food forward and the other aft. When I portage I jam the small one under the seat, and wear the large one. I use two paddles for portaging rather than a yoke because I resent anything that doesn't do double duty.

Using this system I never had any trouble with trim.

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PostPosted: December 19th, 2004, 4:56 pm 
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Location: Auburn, Ontario Canada
with one pack would I need a sliding seat? would it work forward or should it be aft?
I was planning to put a slider in but if I don't need to...

Dave


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PostPosted: December 19th, 2004, 5:34 pm 
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Dave Harman wrote:
with one pack would I need a sliding seat?


Dave, In my mind it has alot to do with what canoe you are talking about paddling, how much you put in your pack... whether you plan to paddle the canoe empty part of the time... Let me give you an example. If you were to paddle a Swift Osprey or any other dedicated solo tripping boat, you might be able to load one canoe pack immediately behind the seat and if kneeling on a seat placed in a position that suits both kneeling and sitting paddlers you might trim pretty well. But that depends totally on how much you carry.

Conversely, lets say you paddle a small tandem with the kneeling thwart 18 inches behind the center of the canoe... you might be able to load a 60 pound pack under or just infront of the center thwart and the boat might trim out level loaded.

In my experience solo tripping, keeping the heavy stuff either right in front or right behind you is critical as the middle of the hull carries the weight much better. Almost regardless of what you carry, you are the heaviest thing in the canoe. So say you weigh 180 pounds and the pack weighs 60. You can move that pack 3 inches away from the center of balance for every inch you move the other direction. Since most canoes trim best almost dead level as the boat moving forward causes a slight rise in the bow... you can get that pack pretty far in front of you or behind you depending on your position in the canoe and still trim.

I kneel 100% of the time that I paddle.... I have my seats set in all my canoes to trim empty. But I have tripped in the canoes with only one pack and have been able to load that pack immediately behind the seat despite being 6'4" and the boat trims fine. The only canoe I own that is trim sensitive is my Blackhawk Ariel, which does have a slidng seat. But the Ariel is one of the most radically asymmetrical canoe hulls ever designed, and ends up being quite trim sensitive also. But the other 3 solos can be trimmed with a single pack easy enough, and all the seats are still hung in their factory bolt holes. :o

Now those that trip in small tandems as solos, have much more options as the boats maintain their fullness further forward and are far less effected by even major shifts in weight. If one were to trip in say a 16' Prospector, one could easily load a single pack in front of the paddler and the boat would trim fine.

I'd suggest you get your canoe and your kit all assembled and try it out. You might be surprised as to how well your canoe can trim with a single pack...


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PostPosted: December 19th, 2004, 6:22 pm 
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Location: Auburn, Ontario Canada
Thanks pknoerr
It's an Osprey I'm working on,may have to wait and try to balance it both ways before I attach the seat.


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PostPosted: December 19th, 2004, 8:31 pm 
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Location: Pefferlaw, Ontario & Melissa Ontario, Canada
An added advantage to having a sliding seat in a solo, is the ability to adjust the seat to balance the canoe perfectly for portaging. I make adjustments in order to rest the seat on the top of my pack. No need for any kind of yoke, and very comfortable on the trail.

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PostPosted: December 23rd, 2004, 2:29 pm 
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Dave Harman wrote:
Thanks pknoerr
It's an Osprey I'm working on,may have to wait and try to balance it both ways before I attach the seat.


The Osprey will paddle best with the pack aft of the seat. The longitudianl center of bouyancy is 51.3% aft of the forward waterline ending whihc is usually 5" aft of the tip of the bow (depends on how you shape the bow).

Where you locate the seat depends upon how you paddle. If you kneel most of the time put the front of the seat about 8" aft of the LCB. The boat will trim down slightly at the stern when you sit but that won't cause any problems.

Don't worry overly much about trim so long as the boat trims down at the stern. Level trim with you in position and the pack right up against the seat back is best but so long as the boat doesn't trim down by the bow you will not notice a lot of difference in paddling effort only in tracking.

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PostPosted: December 24th, 2004, 3:42 am 
Jwinters wrote:
[...]
>Don't worry overly much about trim so long as the boat trims down at
>the stern. Level trim with you in position and the pack right up
>against the seat back is best but so long as the boat doesn't trim
>down by the bow you will not notice a lot of difference in paddling
>effort only in tracking.

A lot of difference in tracking can mean a lot of difference in
paddling effort...
My experience with most other solo paddlers is that they tend to
spill a lot of energy with keeping their canoe on track, especially
when paddling in difficult wind directions... The ability to trim
well, for me means a lot effort saved, at least in the solo boat that
I paddle most (We-no-nah Whisper).
If you can trim well enough with packs, a sliding seat is indeed not
necessary. But with an empty canoe, and especially one that is quite
sensitive to trim differences, it sure can mean a big difference
in performance to me. The less correction you need to go straight,
the more energy you have to go forward.

Dirk Barends


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