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PostPosted: June 9th, 2005, 1:00 pm 
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Joined: March 23rd, 2005, 9:22 am
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Location: Wenatchee, WA
"FYI - Dave Kruger does most, if not all, the design work at Wenonah "

Rolf I stand by my original post that Mike Cichanowski (Mike Cich) designed the Cascade. I checked on the Wenonah web site.


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PostPosted: June 10th, 2005, 7:29 am 
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Joined: March 17th, 2002, 7:00 pm
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Location: Ottawa, Ontario, Canada
John Marshall wrote:
"FYI - Dave Kruger does most, if not all, the design work at Wenonah "

Rolf I stand by my original post that Mike Cichanowski (Mike Cich) designed the Cascade. I checked on the Wenonah web site.


Hi John, looks like you're right. I went to the web site too and sure enough Mike is credited with designing the Cascade. I based my earlier comment on conversations I had with both Mike and Dave when Debra and I dropped in to the factory on our trip out west last year. Mike gave us a tour of the place which is quite impressive. I spent a fair bit of time chatting with Dave Kruger in the office where they do the design work at Wenonah. The impression I got was that Mike is pretty busy running the place and Dave's now doing most of the design work. What I can say about our tour was how attention to detail is obvious in every aspect of the company. They put a lot of effort into doing quality work every step of the way. I also found it interesting that Dave prefers to loft out his designs full scale on paper instead of using a computer program. He says he's quite comfortable using the computer to do the design work, but simply prefers doing it full size. It helps him to visualize what the design will do in water better. This is just idle speculation, but I think the Cascade might have done a little better in that wave situation if Dave had done the design instead of Mike. Mike strikes me as a very competative guy and I suspect ensuring the speed side of the equation is taken care of is most important to him. Dave strikes me as being less interested in pure performance and he might have compromised some of the speed in favour of other factors. I could be way off base in those assumptions of course, but that's my sense of the two from the relatively shot time I've spent chatting with them. They're both super nice people who care a lot about paddling.


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PostPosted: June 10th, 2005, 9:32 am 
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Joined: December 2nd, 2002, 7:00 pm
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Location: Grand Haven, Michigan U.S.A.
Rolf,

There is no doubt in my mind that Dave is the better designer. The Cascade has been the big whitewater tripping hull for many years at Wenonah, maybe nearly as long as Dave and Mike have been working together. But, even looking at the Kruger designed boats, I dont' see alot of flare above the waterline or blunt entries like Old Town or Swift build. I think Wenonah's "ethos" ( as John so aptly put it) is straight ahead performance regardless of if it's Mike, Dave or the Gene Jensen designed boats (like the Minnesota series). They are all great boats for their intention, but pounding heavy whitewater and plowing over huge standing waves has never been Wenonah's forte. Similar things can bee said about a number of MRC boats. They don't have massive amounts of bow flare either and also carry the reputation of being wetter than the slower blunt ended Old Towns.

PK


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PostPosted: June 10th, 2005, 10:56 am 
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Location: Ottawa, Ontario, Canada
pknoerr wrote:
Rolf,
I think Wenonah's "ethos" ( as John so aptly put it) is straight ahead performance regardless of if it's Mike, Dave or the Gene Jensen designed boats (like the Minnesota series).


I spent a lot of time talking to Dave about the prospector he designed. What I came away with is a feeling that he's very open to ideas. I know he feels confident that his prospector remains very true to the original and I agree with him on that. I think he tempers his designs on the rest of the boats they build to follow the company stand on speed, but he'd be more than willing to incorporate features in his designs that cope with other design criteria like waves and white water. That's just not a big part of what the bulk of their clientelle seems to want. I suspect that if enough people asked for that in a Wenonah boat, they'd build it. They openly admit that they don't have a good penetration in the Canadian market and that's largely because they don't understand it well. The kind of paddling they do is different and it shows in most of the boats they make.


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 Post subject: We-no-nahs performance
PostPosted: June 11th, 2005, 4:06 am 
Rolf Kraiker wrote:
[...]
>I think he tempers his designs on the rest of the boats they build
>to follow the company stand on speed, but he'd be more than willing
>to incorporate features in his designs that cope with other design
>criteria like waves and white water. That's just not a big part of
>what the bulk of their clientelle seems to want. I suspect that if
>enough people asked for that in a Wenonah boat, they'd build it.
>They openly admit that they don't have a good penetration in the
>Canadian market and that's largely because they don't understand it
>well. The kind of paddling they do is different and it shows in most
>of the boats they make.

So far I think they are doing quite well for Canada
with their Prospectors?
Only thing they have to do now, is bring back
their 18' Jensen under the name of 18' Prospector :-)

All kidding (and cynicism) aside with all the 'retro' in canoeing nowadays
(Canadienne and Seliga @ Bell, Charles River @ Old Town etc. )
owing two boats of We-no-nah myself,
my practical experiences with We-no-nah boats
(18' Jensen and Whisper) and the We-no-nah company
have indeed been quite well.

Dirk Barends


Last edited by Guest on June 25th, 2009, 7:18 am, edited 2 times in total.

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PostPosted: June 11th, 2005, 9:16 am 
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Location: Grand Haven, Michigan U.S.A.
Rolf Kraiker wrote:
I spent a lot of time talking to Dave about the prospector he designed. What I came away with is a feeling that he's very open to ideas. I know he feels confident that his prospector remains very true to the original and I agree with him on that.


See I can't comment on the Wenonah Prospector. I haven't paddled one as my local Wenonah dealer only has a handful of Royalex Spirits, Adirondacks and Saranacs. But I see no reason to doubt your statements that Dave did a wonderful job with his version.

PK


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PostPosted: June 11th, 2005, 2:12 pm 
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Joined: March 17th, 2002, 7:00 pm
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Location: Ottawa, Ontario, Canada
pknoerr wrote:
I see no reason to doubt your statements that Dave did a wonderful job with his version.

I loaned my Wenonah out to a number of ORCA lakewater insturctors at one of Jodie's paddlefest events. A number of the people who paddle it were among those who aught to know the boat the best. The Wenonah got universal praise from the folks who took it out for being very similar to the best of the breed compared to others they were familar with. What I did find interesting was the number of folks who commented that the canoe felt too deep. The one I have is in Kevlar and is quite light. The specs on it are the same as what's in the Chestnut catalogs I have but it feels like it's deeper than a canvas and wood boat because it's so light. In wood and canvas, the boat handles differently because of the counter-balancing weight. Once you load it up, it feels just like any other prospector I've paddled.


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