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PostPosted: August 12th, 2005, 8:52 am 
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Joined: August 11th, 2005, 9:30 am
Posts: 24
Location: Barrie, Ontario
Are you talking about Carbon fiber and Kevlar +-45 Stitched materials, +-45 S-Glass, or any Carbon fiber and Kevlar.[/quote]

I was speaking of stitched Biax carbon and Biax Kevlar. Biax S-Glass is not as common. I've had good luck with an outer layer of S-glass twill (around a 4 oz), a layer of 9oz Biax Kevlar, some 1/8" PVC core, and and inner layer of carbon twill. I was quite pleased with the result, although there are many other good combinations of fabrics like these. The Biax Kevlar wets out and conforms beautifully, by the way, and the 0 axis fibers of a triax are not as efficient in a canoe shape (ideally there would be a +45/-45/90 triax Kelvar, but I've yet to see one. Of course you could lay in some Kevlar or Carbon Unidirectional materials on the 90 axis....

With a little digging, you shouldn't have any problem sourcing these materials in Canada.

I will be using an epoxy (probably Raka). What should be used for UV protection? UV protection is something I was going to worry about after the boat is finished. [/quote]

Good plan, as long as it is coated, you should be fine. Aliphatic Urethanes would probably be best (Awlgrip, Endura, Imron, etc.), but can be expensive and a bit toxic. They exibit the best colour stability and durability, though.

Ditto for the epoxy and topcoat. There are lots of good Canadian sources. Remember that epoxy hardener is hazardous goods, and that shipping can cost a lot.

I think for this project adding a core over the male mold is above my abilities, I suppose this could be done inside the canoe after the boat is built (like the reinforcing ribs).[/quote]

True, a core adds complexity. There are a couple of cores available that are sliced in 1 cm squares with a scrim back, so they would lay down very nicely, either during the build or after for local reinforcement.

By the way, how do you get the quotes to show up in white? (I guess that belongs in a different forum)


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PostPosted: August 12th, 2005, 9:57 am 
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Joined: July 12th, 2005, 7:46 pm
Posts: 45
Location: Saginaw, Michigan, USA
aaronj wrote:
By the way, how do you get the quotes to show up in white? (I guess that belongs in a different forum)

You can start by using the quote icon at th top of each post. this will quote the entire post by default. If you want to quote a specific sentence or paragraph instead of the entire post there are two ways to do it. The easiest is to highlight the sentence in the reply window and hit the quote icon. The second way is to manually add the bbcode tags This is done like this
Quote:
[quote ] this is the quoted text [/quote ]
I put an extra space in the brackets so that the code would not be processed.
If you want it to say XXXX wrote it is done by putting the name in of the person whom you are quoting in the opening bracket. Such as
aaronj wrote:
[quote="aaronj" ] This is another quoted sentence [/quote ]
again I put in an extra space so the code would not process.

Quote:
With a little digging, you shouldn't have any problem sourcing these materials in Canada.

Thanks, however I am in the US (Saginaw, Michigan to be exact).

Quote:
Good plan, as long as it is coated, you should be fine. Aliphatic Urethanes would probably be best (Awlgrip, Endura, Imron, etc.), but can be expensive and a bit toxic. They exibit the best colour stability and durability, though.
More good info. I have never heard of any of the products mentioned. I guess I have some more research to do.


Quote:
. . . some 1/8" PVC core . . .
,
Quote:
True, a core adds complexity. There are a couple of cores available that are sliced in 1 cm squares with a scrim back, so they would lay down very nicely, either during the build or after for local reinforcement.

I am glad to know this can be done post construction. If done post construction would in be adequate to cover the PVC core with a layer of s-glass?


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PostPosted: August 12th, 2005, 12:17 pm 
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Joined: August 11th, 2005, 9:30 am
Posts: 24
Location: Barrie, Ontario
Thanks for the
Quote:
quote
tips!

Thanks, however I am in the US (Saginaw, Michigan to be exact).

Quote:
I have never heard of any of the products mentioned. I guess I have some more research to do.


Awlgrip, endura and imron are common industrial finishes, but not necessarily easily available to the consumer. They all have thorough web sites, however. A quick internet search, perhaps....


Quote:
I am glad to know this can be done post construction. If done post construction would in be adequate to cover the PVC core with a layer of s-glass?


Well technically, you will have a better bond of these materials if they are added during the initial build. However, if done carefully over a well prepared cured laminate, I see no reason why it won't work nicely, and yes, s-glass should be fine. I would make some attempt to either taper to core at the edges or fillet with thickened epoxy or a premixed epoxy filler. Either way it eases the transition of the top layer of fabric from the core to the laminate below, thereby avoiding air pockets and voids. (avoiding voids, man the english isn't flowing today...) Structurally, this is a good thing.


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PostPosted: August 25th, 2005, 11:16 am 
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Joined: July 12th, 2005, 7:46 pm
Posts: 45
Location: Saginaw, Michigan, USA
I have search the net and called many suppliers and have had not luck with finding the fabric I want to use. Either they do not carry it or I need to purchase a full roll.
Kevlar/Carbon Biaxial – no luck (I will use the hybrid)
Biaxial S-Glass (both -45/+45 and 0/+90) - no luck.
Raka has a fabric called biaxial 600, however I have not idea if it is s-glass, e-glass, or some other type of fabric.

Does anyone have a 8 yards length biax 5.6oz (30 inches wide) S-Glass they would want to sell?


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PostPosted: August 26th, 2005, 10:04 am 
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Joined: December 8th, 2004, 10:34 pm
Posts: 10
deleteriousone wrote:
Raka has a fabric called biaxial 600, however I have not idea if it is s-glass, e-glass, or some other type of fabric.


Raka Biaxial 0600 is e-glass.

Also have you considered (if it's in stock) the kevlar triaxial that Raka offers? Wetting it out maybe tricky unless you're vacuum bagging or infusing.

Have you contacted Fiberglass Supply in Oregon? (http://www.fiberglasssupply.com/)

They sell s-glass (plain weave not biaxial) for the surfboard and windsurfing construction.


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PostPosted: August 26th, 2005, 11:24 pm 
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Joined: July 12th, 2005, 7:46 pm
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Location: Saginaw, Michigan, USA
Bayport_Bob wrote:
Raka Biaxial 0600 is e-glass.

When I talked with Raka the were seemed bothered that I would ask such trivial questions. I mentioned that I was using the technique in the book. They apparently sell a kit for such or have other’s reference the book. As for their biaxial 600 the answer I got was 'it is glass, you do not want that . . .' (I guess for this project)

The for epoxy the rep recommended that I use their 5:1 hardener (631) I am not sure if this is because I said I was using the Hybrid fabric (which is a lower oz weight than the recommended Kevlar fabric), my concern with it is that of blushing and the set speed. I think I will need an epoxy and hardener which are forgiving.
I plan to use two layers of the hybrid one in strips set at a 45 angle to the other.

Quote:
Also have you considered (if it's in stock) the kevlar triaxial that Raka offers? Wetting it out maybe tricky unless you're vacuum bagging or infusing.

I have ruled out the use of any triaxial fabric since I am wetting out the layup manually (no vacuum bagging or infusing). I was tempted by VectorPly’s (+45/-45/0) Kevlar, Carbon, e-glass) for a time.

Quote:
Have you contacted Fiberglass Supply in Oregon? (http://www.fiberglasssupply.com/)

Yes I have, no help here.

I gave up on getting a biaxial fabric.
I have ordered both hybrid and s-glass from mrfiberglass.com
16 yard Hybrid and 24 of s-glass at a cost of $640 (US) which was better than I found anywhere else.


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