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PostPosted: July 18th, 2005, 10:18 am 
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Joined: July 12th, 2005, 12:33 pm
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Building in the technique you are will actually be a good warm up to woodstrip building.

I wanted to see your progress but your website said the page could not be found.


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PostPosted: July 18th, 2005, 1:59 pm 
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Joined: July 12th, 2005, 7:46 pm
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Location: Saginaw, Michigan, USA
Maybe I mis-typed the url
try here: http://www.microtek-inc.com/canoe/canoe.htm


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PostPosted: July 18th, 2005, 2:16 pm 
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I figure you're trying to prolong the suspence............ :lol:

That URL had same results as before. I'm still getting a "Gateway Timeout "


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PostPosted: July 18th, 2005, 3:32 pm 
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Location: Saginaw, Michigan, USA
I do not know. I am able to access it without issue. Maybe it is an DNS issue with your ISP.


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PostPosted: July 19th, 2005, 1:32 pm 
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Joined: November 16th, 2004, 4:31 pm
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Location: Brooklin, Ontario, Canada
I visited your website. I too have had this book for quite some time now and I only got as far as plotting the design. I was amazed to see that I am not the only one to plot the designs in Adobe Ilustrator. Infact I plotted the designs for all the models in the book. It's been a vey busy year for me and my fiancee as we just bought a house and are getting married this year thus the canoe building process has been put on hold. I did go to have my plans printed and every where I've gone wants to charge me $45.00 per print. We do have Krinkos here so I will have to give them a try. I had a thought to give myself some practice as well as revenue although there is no great hurry to bulid as I have a fibreglass canoe right now. My idea was to bulid a few fibreglass models from the mould and sell them to buy the more expensive building materials. More recently I have been thinking about skipping the Kevlar and using carbon fibre to make the final product a little lighter. Anyway good luck with your build hopefully I will get a chance to start mine this winter.


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PostPosted: July 19th, 2005, 4:25 pm 
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Joined: July 12th, 2005, 7:46 pm
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Location: Saginaw, Michigan, USA
Thank you for your reply.
When you go to Kinko's you will not want to have the plans printed in color, they charge way too much.
As I understand it carbon fiber does not have the same strength as Kevlar, this is why I am considering the use of a Kevlar/carbon fiber hybrid fabric with the strengths (and weaknesses) of both.


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PostPosted: July 20th, 2005, 6:18 am 
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Carbon has more stiffness then kevlar. But it does not do well with impact or abbrassion.

Kevlar Does get with impact and tension, but can get fuzzy on the ends or if is scratched deep and is an absolute pain to repair.

In either case of carbon or kevlar, they should be covered with at least one layer of e or s-glass.


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PostPosted: August 10th, 2005, 12:51 pm 
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Location: Saginaw, Michigan, USA
I have a couple more questions. Do you think use of an extra layer of the hybrid Kevlar/Carbon fabric over the 'football' (the entire keel) would give enough strength and stiffness to the canoe to allow me to not use reinforcing ribs inside to prevent oilcanning?

The book calls for the use of 8.9 oz Kevlar, however heaviest hybrid fabric I can find is 5.5 oz.. If I use two layers of hybrid fabric the bottom of the boat will have layers of hybrid and two layers of s-glass (except for some overlap on the keel where there will be three). Keep in mind I am trying for a strong light boat. Maybe the extra layer of hybrid cloth is not necessary. It will certainly add cost and weight. What do you think?

BTW, I have updated the web pages to show my progress on this project. The URL again is: http://www.microtek-inc.com/canoe/canoe.htm


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PostPosted: August 10th, 2005, 1:06 pm 
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Quote:
Using a 5.5 oz in a hybrid shouldn't be a problem. You could get a bit extra and add a second layer to the waterline area (football shape) just to be sure.
Even using a slightly heavier S glass for back up would make up for the difference but may add a few ounces to overall weight.


You may find that some internal bracing may be needed but once the gunnels, deck and thwarts are in place it will stiffen up the boat a LOT. Bracing could be added after the trim if there is a problem with hull flex.
The added layer to the waterline area (football) would definetly help with oil canning and as mentioned in an earlier post even e-glass will work to cover this over.

If I were doing it this way I would be tempted to do a layer of S or E first, then the football then S glass then the C/K overlaid with a final S glass. you could skip the S glass between the 2 hybrid layers if weight is a concern.

Still can't load your site but hopefully that will change at some point...... I'll keep trying.

All the best with the project !!!


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PostPosted: August 10th, 2005, 1:12 pm 
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One extra layer of 6 oz will probably still oil can. Not stiff enough. I'd recommend 3 or more layers of carbon cloth laid on the diagonal. But that ain't cheap. You could also try sandwiching a layer of thin (1/4") foam in the football the way Wenonah does it.

I am enjoying your site. Keep at it!

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PostPosted: August 10th, 2005, 1:54 pm 
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Location: Saginaw, Michigan, USA
Weight (mine and the canoe's :) ) is a issue. I have to be able to port the boat myself as my children are young an my wife may not always be with me when I go out.
As for accessing the site, I am at a loss. I got a timeout when I did a trace route and 49ms when I pinged it. I also just connected to the site without problem from a computer 800 miles away and a different ISP (thus a different subnet).

The time has is drawing short to make a decision on which fabric I will use. I am thinking I will use Raka epoxy.
Which would you use Kevlar, Kevlar/Carbon, or Carbon Fiber to build the boat and why?


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PostPosted: August 10th, 2005, 5:28 pm 
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Haven't used Raka so can't say much on your choice there. Seem to remember it being mentioned before so someone else will be able to help more on that.

On the fabric....... carbon fiber adds stiffness and kevlar is great for wear resistance. A hybrid of the 2 would be a good choice since it combines the 2 within a single layer of weave.
If you opt for the waterline 2nd layer I would suggest trying to lay the hybrid in diagonally to the layer you place over the rest of the hull. By doing this you will gain the added stiffness in both directions along the hull.

The trim will stiffen up the upper part of the hull quite well and you can always add a couple of extra stiffeners forward and aft of the center thwart if you detect flex in that area.

On the weight..... If you take your time laying this up I'm guessing you'll end up with a hull weight around 50 lbs or so depending on the trim you use. Should be able to single hand it onto the roof of your vehicle and get it to the water without too much trouble.

Hope that helps some....


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PostPosted: August 10th, 2005, 5:49 pm 
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Location: Saginaw, Michigan, USA
I thought Raka in part because of this article.
http://www.oneoceankayaks.com/Epoxresl.htm

The way I was thinking about the layup was to lay strips of hybrid cloth cut to the length of the measurement from gunwale to gunwale (the cloth is 50” wide) down the length of the boat (port to starboard). Then run a second layer of hybrid the length of the hull from bow to stern. Following this with running s-glass (30’ wide) down each side (bow to stern) overlapping in the keel with one more layer of s-glass down the keel overlapping the side layers of s-glass.
Thus the first (inner) layer of hybrid is perpendicular to the second layer and the s-glass is parallel. Clear as mud?

Maybe I should substitute the outer hybrid layer with Kevlar (bow to stern) or the inner layer (port to starboard) with Carbon fiber. This is the first time I have will have worked with any of these materials and am unsure what to expect..

Speaking of mud I am still waiting for the first layer of drywall compound to dry, I has been 24 hours, however I had to cover it with a tarp because of rain.


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PostPosted: August 10th, 2005, 6:42 pm 
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Location: Toronto
YOUR WEBSITE IS AWESOME :clap: :clap: :clap:

You should write for the Red Green Show!!!


I am going to start on m yproject in the fall, this is truly inspiring

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PostPosted: August 10th, 2005, 6:51 pm 
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Location: Saginaw, Michigan, USA
Dan. wrote:
YOUR WEBSITE IS AWESOME :clap: :clap: :clap:

Thank You

Dan. wrote:
You should write for the Red Green Show!!!

not me :D

Dan. wrote:
I am going to start on m yproject in the fall, this is truly inspiring

It is my hope to be on (but not in) the water at that time.
Be sure not to make the same mistakes that I did.
I have tried to post my mistakes as they happen. I have found already that plenty of drywall compound can help fix may mistakes (due to lack of ability and otherwise) of the previous steps.


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