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PostPosted: September 27th, 2005, 7:04 am 
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Saw a funky new cloth material at Noahs yesterday.
It was a Carbon / Kevlar Hybrid Cloth.
The cloth comes in a red / black and a yellow / black weave.
About $44/yard.

Anyone work with this stuff?


Doug

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PostPosted: September 27th, 2005, 8:27 am 
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I also wouldn't mind hearing from those that have actually worked with it. This must be the same material pictured here:

http://www.oneoceankayaks.com/Abrasion.htm

If this is going to be used in one-off cedarstrips, my (uneducated) guess would be that there would be problems with cutting, wetout, sanding, repair, and the expense wouldn't justify the benefits. Although the report above doesn't test the kevlar-carbon material, this conclusion is stated up front:

Quote:
With the exception of s-glass, I seldom use them. To me, the benefits do not justify the drawbacks, particularly the epoxy weight and labor. I prefer to add few more layers of normal e-glass or s-glass on the keel line for the same effect.

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PostPosted: September 27th, 2005, 11:29 am 
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Location: Saginaw, Michigan, USA
Doug wrote:
Saw a funky new cloth material at Noahs yesterday.
It was a Carbon / Kevlar Hybrid Cloth.
The cloth comes in a red / black and a yellow / black weave.
About $44/yard.

Anyone work with this stuff?


Doug


I am working with a similar hybrid trying to make a canoe. This is my first layup of any sort and I have made plenty of mistakes.
I purchased the fabric at MrFiberglass.com for $27.50 (US)/ yard.
I purchased the blue(and black) hybrid twill which looked good on the website.

Notes about the fabric:
It is a twill 50” in width
It unravels easily where cut.
It looks great (uncut and unused), you will not want to cover it with paint or gelcoat.
After wetting out it is much darker (a midnight blue)

You can check out my website to see my folly in my attempt (thus far) trying to build my canoe. On the layup page you might be able to get an idea of color change after wetout.

http://www.microtek-inc.com/canoe/canoe.htm


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PostPosted: September 27th, 2005, 1:38 pm 
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Frozentripper, yes that is the stuff.

deleteriousone, coolsite.

Here is a like to what it should look like.
http://www.novacraft.com/blue_steel.htm

Doug

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PostPosted: September 27th, 2005, 2:15 pm 
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Doug wrote:
deleteriousone, coolsite.
Thank you.
Quote:
Here is a like to what it should look like.
http://www.novacraft.com/blue_steel.htmDoug

Their fabric looks to me to be a plain weave rather than a twill, mine is that dark after the wetout.


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PostPosted: September 27th, 2005, 2:41 pm 
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Quote:
Anyone work with this stuff?

It's been around awhile and gets used for a lot of different applications from boats to skateboards.

You need to take a bit more care in getting it wet out because it's difficult to saturate the fabric. Works well with epoxies and vinylester resins because they flex a bit better than poly's...... so far anyway. Usually that tends to make the lay-up's a little "resin rich".

The NovaCraft link mentions they use vacuum infusion so the vacuum does the work of getting the resin into the weave and since the material is compressed before the resin gets introduced it keps the resin/ cloth ratio quite consistent.

You can get good results doing it by hand just takes a bit more care.


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PostPosted: October 15th, 2005, 10:49 pm 
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Joined: August 11th, 2005, 9:30 am
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Location: Barrie, Ontario
Doug wrote:
Saw a funky new cloth material at Noahs yesterday.
It was a Carbon / Kevlar Hybrid Cloth.
The cloth comes in a red / black and a yellow / black weave.
About $44/yard.

Anyone work with this stuff?


Doug


Quite a few times.
Will wet out slower than glass, should be used with epoxy or vinylester only due to their higher specific bond strength, Kevlar of any colour will turn darker when wet out, and should be protected from UV as it will continue to fade and degrade otherwise. Kevlar yarns will make cutting of the dry fabric difficult without specialty Kevlar shears, which will themselves be prematurely worn by cutting the abrasive carbon yarns. Trimming the laminate after the fact can be difficult as is is with all Kevlars, since they don't cut or sand easily.
If you look around you can find these farbics in yellow, red, blue, green, orange, purple, and black (black kelvar with carbon). The silver/black hybrids that you might see are not Kevlar but aluminum plated fiberglass.

Aaron


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PostPosted: October 16th, 2005, 9:39 am 
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How do you cut it? I've always heard that shears used to cut kevlar should only be used to cut kevlar. Since the carbon and kevlar is woven together, does it wear out your shears faster?


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PostPosted: October 16th, 2005, 9:44 pm 
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JEM wrote:
How do you cut it? I've always heard that shears used to cut kevlar should only be used to cut kevlar. Since the carbon and kevlar is woven together, does it wear out your shears faster?


Yes it will wear the shears faster, but there is little you can do about it. Just figure it as part of the cost of using such materials.


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PostPosted: October 16th, 2005, 11:48 pm 
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JEM wrote:
How do you cut it?

For the canoe I am building I purchased a EC Cutter (electric rechargeable cutter), it cuts the hybrid fabric with ease. It did not seem to differentiate between the Kevlar or Carbon fiber strands. It worked so well that I had to put my project on hold to order a replacement (my wife’s dog used it as a chew toy) when I found the shears just shred the Kevlar. This cutter gives a clean cut. I have used it only for this project, therefore can not comment on the longtime effectiveness of the cutting blades.

The EC Cutter was not as efficient at cutting the cured laminate, but with patience can manage slow cuts, this is where the hand shears worked best.

One problem I had was underestimating the propensity of the twill Kevlar/Carbon fabric to unravel with handling wherever cut. If you use the hybrid be sure to get a little extra to allow for the waste, this may be true for all twill weave fabric.


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PostPosted: October 17th, 2005, 9:39 am 
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Indeed the EC cutter does work very well for hybrids, but will suffer the same fate as a good pair of Kevlar shears, e.i. it would last much longer cutting either carbon or kevlar exclusively but not as long cutting both. It was not designed for cutting finished laminates, and I'd suggest that that would be a little hard on it as well. It is not the most durable machine.

Twill fabric will have a tendency to fray, it's the nature of what makes it so conformable in the first place.


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PostPosted: October 17th, 2005, 5:15 pm 
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deleteriousone wrote:

You can check out my website to see my folly in my attempt (thus far) trying to build my canoe. On the layup page you might be able to get an idea of color change after wetout.

http://www.microtek-inc.com/canoe/canoe.htm


BTW, I've enjoyed reading what I have so far in your canoe building experience!

It still beats regular work. Wink!

Cheers

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PostPosted: October 17th, 2005, 6:22 pm 
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Georgi wrote:
BTW, I've enjoyed reading what I have so far in your canoe building experience!

It still beats regular work. Wink!

Cheers

Thank you, I hope it will help others not make the same many mistakes which I have. I know that I get a bit longwinded in my narration, so goes life.


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