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 Post subject: Repair question
PostPosted: March 27th, 2006, 11:25 am 
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Joined: August 20th, 2002, 7:00 pm
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Location: toronto, Ontario canada
So I head down to the lake to take my canoe out for it's first paddle in about 10 years only to see...
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It looks like it got blown off the rack and hung on its side. Both thwarts and the stern seat are like this. Only the inwales and the little strip of trim looks damaged. Disappointing, but I was planning on replacing the thwarts with a yoke and kneeler anyway.

Any ideas on what the cost would be to have this repaired? Where would I get the stock from? I gather Home Depot isn't going to carry what I'll need. Any suggestions about what else to trick out while I'm working on it? Anyone have a favorite Toronto based shop to work on it?

It will be my first time working on it, so I'd like to do it with the help/supervision of an experienced person.

My big nightmare is to take the gunwales off only to find the canvas is rotting. What's the life on the sealer? When we last did this, ~20 years ago, we forced a paste so hard and heavy that the weave of the canvas disappeared.

What about transporting it? Should I be worried about cartopping without the thwarts to provide stability? Rough them in place and cinch with rope? My cartopper kit is the foam blocks, no roof rack.

Och! So sad. A beautiful Sunday morning, my new pfd in hand, scales and measuring tape to play dimension & weight games with. I thought bringing the camera was for scenery shots!


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PostPosted: March 27th, 2006, 12:34 pm 
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Joined: December 29th, 2002, 7:00 pm
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Location: Bancroft, Ontario Canada
Difficult to see whether the inwale's broken right through... if it's only partly split off and the remainder is still intact, you might be able to clamp and glue the broken pieces back on with epoxy. Maybe a temporary fix, depending on how much damage there actually is.

Noah's Marine has replacement gunwale stock, ash most likely, about $20 per inwale, might as well do both sides so that the appearance is the same on both. They'll cut and trim them to size so you can replace after drilling holes for screws.

Possible complication.... a canoe with high ends means lots of bend in the gunwales, and bending and clamping to shape becomes necessary, possibly making things difficult if they resist bending. Maybe Noah's will install them for you or recommend somebody to do the work... anyway, coulda been worse, & gunwale replacement usually has be done some time.

PS... the owner of Smithcraft Fiberglass at Islington and Queensway nearby restores wooden canoes and might be able to do the work or make some recommendations.

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 Post subject:
PostPosted: March 27th, 2006, 1:01 pm 
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Joined: March 6th, 2002, 7:00 pm
Posts: 64
Location: Woodstock, Ontario Canada
Try Tendercraft Boat Works in Toronto. www.tendercraftboats.com
I've always found them helpful.
Let us know how the repairs turn out.

Brian


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 Post subject:
PostPosted: March 27th, 2006, 1:08 pm 
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Location: toronto, Ontario canada
frozentripper wrote:
Difficult to see whether the inwale's broken right through...


The inwale is toast. Busted in 3 places, at each thwart and the stern seat.


Thanks for the places. So far I've only found Heirloom Canoes.


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 Post subject:
PostPosted: March 27th, 2006, 7:41 pm 
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Replacing the inwale is not difficult...if you buy pre-milled stock, you can do it with a drill and a jig saw. If you have access to a table saw, replace that spruce with white ash, and you won't have that problem again. You might have to soak the inwale and maybe even steam it a little if you have a sharp rise, or you might be able to just muscle it into place. If your canvas on the rest of the canoe is sound, it should be fine under the gunwale too....the gunwale doesn't hold the canvas on, should be tacks or staples doing that... Sounds like a little bit of fun...there's nothing better than messing around with canoes, maybe you will get the bug and start building.......


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 Post subject:
PostPosted: March 28th, 2006, 8:31 am 
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Location: toronto, Ontario canada
After some research, I think I'll tackle this one on my own. I've been told it's the easiest repair to ever do on any canoe. One should be familiar with repairing their own gear. No access to a band saw or a steam box. I've got a couple of lines on pre-milled stock, about $40 a piece. Now all I have to do is figure out how to transport the 18' stock cross town in my Pontaic Sunfire.

Thanks all for the pointers! Will post photos of before and after and the bonfire I light when I get frustrated and give up. :P


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 Post subject:
PostPosted: March 28th, 2006, 9:06 am 
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Well, I'd say the outwales are easier than the inwales, but other than being finicky fitting the ends it is fairly straight forward.

A couple of options for transporting:

1) Take an extension ladder to use as support. Tie the ladder to the car the same as you would the canoe and then tie the new inwales to the ladder.

2) For something that light, I've used the passenger side mirror for support, and pulled the rope in through the window to tie it off. At the back, you can get to the the trunk hinge. I'm pretty sure the first set of gunwales I put on were transported this way using a Ford Tempo.

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 Post subject:
PostPosted: March 28th, 2006, 9:35 am 
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Splake wrote:
1) Take an extension ladder to use as support. Tie the ladder to the car the same as you would the canoe and then tie the new inwales to the ladder.


Clever! Thanks.


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 Post subject: You sure this is easy??
PostPosted: March 28th, 2006, 12:59 pm 
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Location: Concord, Massachusetts
This is a wood canvas canoe correct? That means to replace the inwale(s), you must unscrew the outwales, likely remove the canvas, then one or two nails that secure each rib to the inwale and a number of screws that attach the decks to the inwales. Then resecure each rib to the new inwales, then likely recanvas, fill, paint, sand, paint, sand, paint sand, repeat, resecure outwales.

A good winter project. :o

You may be able to shorten the process some by scarfing in some new sections of inwales.


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 Post subject:
PostPosted: March 28th, 2006, 2:58 pm 
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flyrod wrote:
Splake wrote:
1) Take an extension ladder to use as support. Tie the ladder to the car the same as you would the canoe and then tie the new inwales to the ladder.


Clever! Thanks.


I can't take credit for that one, can't remember where I first heard of it.

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PostPosted: March 28th, 2006, 3:00 pm 
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Fitzy wrote:
... then one or two nails that secure each rib to the inwale ...



I don't believe that the ribs are normally fastened to the inwales. The planks are fastened to the ribs, but that is done on the mold, the inwales are fitted and attached after the hull is off the mold.

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 Post subject:
PostPosted: March 28th, 2006, 3:36 pm 
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Most wood canvas canoes I'm aware of the ribs are nailed to the inwales using one nail (sometimes typical Chestnut) or two nails (sometimes typical old town). The ribs are bent over the form and the rib ends are nailed to the inwale to secure the bent rib. The planks are then nailed to the ribs and the hull is lifted off the form.

Here's a picture showing the ribs attached to the inwale:

http://community.webshots.com/photo/178 ... 1892mQacqT

The only screws involved are through every other rib to install the outwales, but that is the last step and they only serve to hold the outwale on.


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 Post subject:
PostPosted: March 28th, 2006, 4:01 pm 
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I think Fitzy may be right. If you zoom in on Flyrod's second picture you will see black marks at the center of each rib where the gunnel is broken... of course this could be the screws from out side....

Here is hoping that it is an easy fix.....

Scarfing in new sections of gunnel is not that difficult.

Thickend epoxy is a mirical substance....

On the issue of transporiting gunnel stock, if you are using ash, tape the pieces together. Use scrap peices of 2X4 or plywood maybe 10 inches long as stiffeners at 2, 3 or 4 places, tape that to your bundle of wood. place the wood on the roofrack, use a good seizing knot to lash it in place with thin rope like parachut cord or similir NOT polypro rope, or tape it. Then tie a piece of cord at the front and back and tie it tight to the bumper or under carriage.

This wood has a lot of flex and alot of strength, so bend it pretty far till it wont shake when you rattle it. This will keep it from bouncing around when you drive. Or use a ladder.... either way.

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 Post subject:
PostPosted: March 28th, 2006, 4:16 pm 
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These fellows are birthing a canoe. They have their hands on the inwale. They will trim the rib ends to be flush with the inwale later.

http://skywoodscanoes.com/tips/restoration.htm

Another inwale approach:

I hate to see it done, but some folks will cut the inwale off, just beneath it, along the length of the canoe (sawzall approach :o argghhhh), making the canoe shallower by the thickness of the inwale and then install new inwales. You have to keep the shape of the canoe together while doing this though! Seems drastic to me.

I was thinking above that he might (big maybe) be able to scarf new inwale pieces in without recanvassing, but I suspect a canvas job may be necessary after screwing with it and might be time for it anyway.

Sorry for all the flak, I just don't think inwale replacement on wood/canvas boats is that easy a job.


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 Post subject:
PostPosted: March 28th, 2006, 9:42 pm 
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Location: Geraldton, Ontario Can
Fitzy is right, the inwale goes on the form before the ribs are bent over. They are then nailed onto the inwale. However, that is still not overly daunting...they are usually smallish copper tacks that will pull out quite easily........if there is no rot in the planking, I think you could simply drill through the planking and ribs into the inwale with small screws and then reattach the outwale using the existing holes. It would be easier than trying to tack it back on.

However, looks like quite bit of black in the planking, you might find some rot when you start taking things apart.

Anyway, Flyrod, there's no damage to the outwales? I can't wrap my head around how so much extensive damage occurred.


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