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PostPosted: March 28th, 2006, 9:46 pm 
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If you dropped the canoe from 8ft and it landed on its side it might look like that....

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PostPosted: March 29th, 2006, 9:15 am 
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Location: toronto, Ontario canada
Here's what I surmise from the damage I see. The canoe was blown off the rack, but caught on the one side. So the canoe hangs off the rack like a C-clamp. Maybe snow or water gets inside and adds to the weight. The thwarts are ripped out.

From what I saw, without taking it down and inspecting, is that the only damage is the inwale and the top trim that hides the thwart fittings. They're busted at the stern seat and both thwarts. Later this week I'll be able to take it down and get some good shots and inspect it fully.

Everyone is telling me this is the easiest thing to fix on a canoe, so I'm going it alone.

Dad suggests that the canvas should be good. It was replaced 20 years ago, and we thought we had sealed it properly. It has spent 19 years in good, dry, ventilated storage. Would much rot have set in within one year? Would any rot set in if it's properly sealed? I may be alarmist about the canvas. I was picking at paint and didn't want to go overboard before I was prepared to do anything about it. The dark stains could be 30+ years old. The only restoration done was 1 or 2 ribs, a few planks, canvas, decks and outwales.

This was a family canoe and has seen some rough treatment. Older siblings guwale bobbed until they ripped the thwarts out and the thing would lie almost flat. Ancient history. The great thing about wood canoes, they can almost always be repaired.

Looks like I should make a trip to the library.

It would suck to have to re-canvas.


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PostPosted: March 29th, 2006, 9:35 am 
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Location: Concord, Massachusetts
Take some good photos, but I think the only way you can make the repairs without MAJOR work installing new inwales and recanvassing is to try and epoxy the broken pieces of rail back in place. Use epoxy and some well placed brass screws. Revarnish your handy work.

Canvas is usually fine unless it leaks, shows major age cracks or is rotted at the gunwale and pulling away. Sounds as though there is still plenty of life in your canvas.

I think stem replacement and wholesale inwales replacement are the hardest repairs to do on a wood canvas boat. :o

Good luck!!


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PostPosted: March 29th, 2006, 1:59 pm 
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Location: Mounds View, Minnesota US
My $.02.

I also agree with Fitz, except for stems, and taking the twist out of a canoe, inner rails are the hardest step in repairing a W/C. This doesn't mean however that you can't do it, just that it can take some time.

Usually the ribs are attached with small nails, not tacks, (tacks are tapered and don't hold unless bent over) and the nails are either ring shanked or rusted steel, either way they come out very hard. The 2 best methods I know of for removing a stubborn rail is, 1) use a hacksaw and cut the nails between the rail and rib, be carefull to not damage the rib, and 2) split the rail lengthwise and remove it, then push out the nails from the rib.

If you want to use the canoe this summer, I'd probably epoxy the breaks in the rail and maybe add a temp re-enforcing to get through the summer.

Then next winter fix it right by replacing the rails and any other bad wood and stretch new canvas. When your done like this it will look close to new.

Oh, and my usual rant about ash, DON"T, it's too heavy. Get some spruce or magonany or cherry. Ash also turns dark very fast if it gets wet.

Dan


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PostPosted: March 29th, 2006, 9:56 pm 
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My apologies Fitzy.

With a cedarstrip-fibreglass construction the inwales are installed after fibreglassing the inside of the hull, which is after the canoe is off the mold. I hadn't realized that with a ribbed construction such as a cedar-canvas that the inwales are used to hold the ribs in place.

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 Post subject: No sweat.
PostPosted: March 30th, 2006, 7:38 am 
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No apology necessary, fuggedabooutit. I'm into these canoes -serious terminal case of wood canoe bug and if you ain't careful with these posts, it just may spread across international boundaries. I have 10 :roll: in various states of seaworthiness. Don't need no stinking plastic porta potty to paddle, but I digress. I just don't want flyrod to get frustrated and use the boat as kindling as he threatened above!! :tsk: :o


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PostPosted: March 30th, 2006, 10:42 am 
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I'll happily take it off his hands for the price of kindling! :D

I've built a canoe, a sea kayak, a rowboat and half refinished a mahogany runabout so far. I caught the boatbuilding infection a good 20 years ago.

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PostPosted: April 2nd, 2006, 9:11 am 
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New shots are available at http://usera.imagecave.com/flyrod/

I'm thinking it can be glued. Yes? Gorilla Glue? Is there a more appropriate product?


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 Post subject: Yikes...
PostPosted: April 2nd, 2006, 7:57 pm 
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The pictures are great.

This is a first for me. I've never seen individual caps on both the inwale and the outwale. Must have been someone's idea of trim. Closed gunwale canoes used one cap over both inwale and outwale.

Hopefully, nailing the cap on the inwale didn't contribute to the problem - tacking enough nails in a straight line in straight grained wood could split it. But the photos suggest it split with the grain I suppose.

I'm no adhesives expert, but I would go with marine epoxy, clamped and then some well placed screws if you want to avoid inwale scarfing/replacing, and canvasing etc.. The thwart -inwale break looks the most problematic.

The tear in the canvas can be patched with a piece of denim and some ambroid glue (model cement). Work the denim in behind the hole and cover with glue. Let dry, sand, repaint.

Post your inwale pictures at the WCHA website and other bright ideas might surface.

http://forums.wcha.org/


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PostPosted: April 3rd, 2006, 7:44 am 
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Thanks for the help and the link, done!

The outwale is a single rabbited piece. If I understand 'closed gunwale' properly, that doesn't describe this canoe. Looking down, I can see the top of every rib between the inwale and the outwale.


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PostPosted: April 3rd, 2006, 11:23 am 
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Are you sure you can't remove the thwarts and seats and just glue the pieces back on with a good epoxy (such as thickened West-System)? It would be vastly simpler. Or scarph in new pieces (though you'd have to remove the screws that come in from the outwales first, and carve little recesses for the nails from the rib-tops).

The end result would be a canoe only very slightly weaker, but it's much simpler.


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PostPosted: April 12th, 2006, 10:44 am 
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After careful consideration and research...

Expoxy and patch for this season. Replace inwale and canvas in the winter.

More questions!

1. Should I be worried about imparting a twist while I'm gluing it? With the seats & thwarts out there isn't anything holding the line. Thankfully I can still use the original thwarts/seats, well replacing one thwart with yoke, but I have the original thwart to template the length and holes. Will these, if put in their original positions, pull the canoe true?

2. A friend suggests putting wax paper between the inwale and the ribs to avoid gluing one to the other. Good idea?

3. The canvas. The mechanics invloved in getting rot in that spot suggests that there is likely some rot on the other three complimentary spots. Good idea to at least expose these areas to help dry them out? Better to leave well enough alone since it's being replaced in 6-8 months.

4. Thanks for pointing me to West System. Great site. When they talk about 'wetting' a joint are they saying the obvious, just get the faces wet? Yeah, it sounds obvious when stated that way. Better to ask the dumb question than get burned.

Clamp! I need clamps!


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PostPosted: April 12th, 2006, 1:05 pm 
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Location: Presque Isle, Maine
Flyrod,

When wetting out your broken area with the epoxy, mix up some un-thickened epoxy and apply it to the wood. Keep applying until the wood will not soak any more in and remains shiny. Then mix up a batch of epoxy thickened with silica or some wood flour. Wipe off the joint area with a rag and apply the thickened mixture and clamp lightly. You only want to clamp enough to hold things in position. Wipe off any excess before it sets to make clean-up easier.

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 Post subject:
PostPosted: June 8th, 2006, 8:10 am 
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Well, it's all glued up. Really, more worry and anxiety than actually doing it was worth. Such is life. I am a little worried about keeping the shape. The canoe had spread a little, about an inch or two, from not having thwarts to hold it together. Curious to see how flexible the epoxy is, doesn't look very. Managed to use clamps & rope to get it mostly in shape. Should make it through ths season. Time will tell.

Sorry, no pictures. Was concentrating on getting the work done.

Next step, re-attach the seat & one thwart, replace the other thwart with a yoke, install a kneeling thwart.

Then the canvas repair & painting. It looks like there's just the one small rotted canvas spot, about the size of a looney. Paint has peeled away from the canvas at some other spots, mostly along the brass stem protectors. The canvas looks fine and the filler intact. Even around the rotted spot the canvas is solid, I couldn't tear it. So I'll do the denim & filler on that one spot and see how it goes before I commit to the big job of re-canvassing the whole boat.

Prefferred paint manufacturer? Red. It's always been red. It will always be red. I guess step one is to chip off what comes away easy with a putty knife. Then go over it with sandpaper, random orbital is fine for this? Tack cloth the surface clean, use rubbing alcohol? Paint.

Dad always ran a bead of clear silicone along the brass stem strips. Still a good idea, or are there better products available? Nothing permanent, need to be able to remove the brass for future re-painting.

And again, many thanks folks. The West System kit was easy to use. I was recommended a wood/fibreglass repair kit at the store. Pre-measured packets of epoxy stuff, a couple of filler options, brushes, spatulas, mixing cups; all included. Tastes great, less filling.


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