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PostPosted: March 17th, 2007, 6:24 pm 
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Just wondering...why are some of the biggest names in canoes conspicuously absent from the gear reviews? Bell, Wenonah, Esquif, Old Town, Dagger...where are you? And some small but reputable and outstanding makers like Placid Boatworks and Peter Hornbeck? Doesn't anyone own these boats?

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PostPosted: March 17th, 2007, 8:18 pm 
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1 - because no one has added names to the list in eons

2 - because when the first (only?) list of boats was slanted toward brands generally available in Ontario.(Esquif at that time were barely known)

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PostPosted: March 17th, 2007, 9:12 pm 
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reviews need to be submitted to an administrator for review. Its not like posting an opinion.

Of course there are a slew of other canoe companies. Some very nice craft. But not available in Canada off the shelf

The best thing about the forii is the people we have available to ask.

I have paddled Charlies boats and some of Peters boats and all of the Loon Works boats. They arent in the reviews.

It would be nice to be able to discuss some fine handmade Canadian craft, like Pam Wedd's Sequin.


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PostPosted: March 17th, 2007, 9:23 pm 
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Will give a review from my kevlar fron north bay canoe company in month and a half :clap:

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PostPosted: March 20th, 2007, 3:04 pm 
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I don't know why they aren't there... Other than that those brands are really only recently available in this country and with much less convenience than most others.

Despite appearances on this forum, most Canadians think Coleman or Grumman if you say canoe to them. Not exactly the height of canoe design. Many consider a canoe that costs $1000 exorbitant, two or three thousand is inconceivable to these folks.

So combined with being a much smaller base market to begin with, we have a much smaller chance of trying them or buying them.

I'd love to read reviews or better yet get to paddle boats from all the makers you mention.

Send samples my way, and I'll even write reviews!
:lol:

Ok so maybe a trip to the Adirondacks is in order....


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PostPosted: March 20th, 2007, 11:48 pm 
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Rapt wrote:

most Canadians think Coleman or Grumman if you say canoe to them.

Ok so maybe a trip to the Adirondacks is in order....


I still think Grumman sometimes. Reminds me of my youth.

A trip to the Adirondacks? Sure why don't you? From May 18-20, Mountainman Outdoor Supply will be holding their annual Paddlefest In Old Forge, NY. The discounts will be big and manufacturer's reps will be on hand to help with demos. $15 allows you to try as many boats as you want for the weekend. Plus there will be guest lecturers and expert paddlers giving demonstrations. To top it all off, there is the beauty of the Adirondacks to savor.

I Googled your location and you are only 3 1/2 hours away. PM me if you want more details.

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PostPosted: March 21st, 2007, 3:52 am 
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Battenkiller wrote:
From May 18-20, Mountainman Outdoor Supply will be holding their annual Paddlefest In Old Forge, NY. The discounts will be big and manufacturer's reps will be on hand to help with demos. $15 allows you to try as many boats as you want for the weekend. Plus there will be guest lecturers and expert paddlers giving demonstrations. To top it all off, there is the beauty of the Adirondacks to savor..
Perhaps this should also be listed in the 'events' forum?

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PostPosted: March 21st, 2007, 7:04 am 
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Personally, I've written many canoe reviews over the years, and have considered writing many more. But I've found that most reviews are regurgitation of the same material that the manufacturer or salesmen say, and that very few of these reviews have much merit. There end up being dozens of reviews where people have only paddled one or two canoe models and tell you that their canoe is awesome, and peoples perspectives of speed, tracking, turning etc. can be highly variable depending on the water they paddle, the type of canoes they have paddled, and how skilled they are.

So in my mind... these hold little merit. The discussions with qualifications that come out of multiple people posting messages on MYCCR and others debunking myths end up being much more usefull.

Finally, there are already lots of good reviews on the web... so really having more places with reviews only dilutes the resource and requires that you go mulitple places to find the info you desire.

PK


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PostPosted: March 21st, 2007, 7:57 am 
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pknoerr wrote:
.So in my mind... these hold little merit. The discussions with qualifications that come out of multiple people posting messages on MYCCR and others debunking myths end up being much more usefull.

I've always felt that the "live" discussions on the forums are much more useful, and often contain more current information, than a "static" review of a few years vintage can provide.

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PostPosted: March 21st, 2007, 8:03 am 
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SteveBoal wrote:
Battenkiller wrote:
From May 18-20, Mountainman Outdoor Supply will be holding their annual Paddlefest In Old Forge, NY. The discounts will be big and manufacturer's reps will be on hand to help with demos. $15 allows you to try as many boats as you want for the weekend. Plus there will be guest lecturers and expert paddlers giving demonstrations. To top it all off, there is the beauty of the Adirondacks to savor..
Perhaps this should also be listed in the 'events' forum?

Abracadabra..... :wink:

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PostPosted: March 21st, 2007, 8:37 am 
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pknoerr wrote:
Personally, I've written many canoe reviews over the years, and have considered writing many more.

There end up being dozens of reviews where people have only paddled one or two canoe models....so in my mind... these hold little merit. The discussions with qualifications that come out of multiple people posting messages on MYCCR and others debunking myths end up being much more usefull. PK


I'd like to read your reviews, you seem to be a skilled and knowledgeable paddler. I'd particularly be interested in boats suitable for styling, a direction I recently got the urge to pursue (as if I haven't fallen out of enough canoes already).

You're probably right about the redundancy of review sources. I was just noticing that there seemed to be a complete absence of U.S. makers in the gear review section (with the exception of Mad River). It's nice to have balance. Also, numerous boats are listed with no reviews at all posted (almost the entire Bluewater, Mad River, Scott and Voyager lines). Some of the responders to this thread have answered my question as to why.

Anyway, I feel it would be nice to have a starting point from which to investigate other canoes, rather than each member of the forum authoring a new thread every time they are curious about a particular boat, or waiting for years for someone else to ask. I'm very curious to find member opinions about numerous canoes, but would find it exhausting to follow umpteen individual threads that I have started and wouldn't be self-centered enough to author all of them in the first place. Seems there must be a simpler way.

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PostPosted: March 21st, 2007, 8:47 am 
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Barbara wrote:
SteveBoal wrote:
Battenkiller wrote:
From May 18-20, Mountainman Outdoor Supply will be holding their annual Paddlefest In Old Forge, NY. The discounts will be big and manufacturer's reps will be on hand to help with demos. $15 allows you to try as many boats as you want for the weekend. Plus there will be guest lecturers and expert paddlers giving demonstrations. To top it all off, there is the beauty of the Adirondacks to savor..
Perhaps this should also be listed in the 'events' forum?

Abracadabra..... :wink:


Thanks, saved me some time. :)

Many of you are probably closer to this event than I am in the States. It's a nice event in classic canoe country. Unless my daughter has her baby that weekend (it's pretty close) I'll be there. I would be nice to meet a few of the folks I've conversed with on the forum.

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PostPosted: March 21st, 2007, 8:58 am 
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Personal story.....the canoe reviews are how I found CCR in the first place.

At the time we were looking to buy a canoe, there were the big 3 locally / easily available to rent and buy. Langford, Swift, and Scott. We had seen a Wenonah at the Outdoor Adventure Show, but once we found out there was no local dealer or support system, we moved back to looking at the big 3.

Driving around Huntsville at the time, it seemed that every car had a beautiful Langford on its roof.

Nowadays, as we drive up the 400 northward, it seems that every car has at least one kayak on the roof.

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PostPosted: March 21st, 2007, 10:20 am 
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Battenkiller wrote:
pknoerr wrote:
Personally, I've written many canoe reviews over the years, and have considered writing many more.

There end up being dozens of reviews where people have only paddled one or two canoe models....so in my mind... these hold little merit. The discussions with qualifications that come out of multiple people posting messages on MYCCR and others debunking myths end up being much more usefull. PK


I'd like to read your reviews, you seem to be a skilled and knowledgeable paddler. ... snip... Seems there must be a simpler way.


I second this. I'd love to know how PK's various canoes compare to each other and other boats he's paddled/reviewed...


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PostPosted: March 21st, 2007, 11:53 am 
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Battenkiller wrote:
You're probably right about the redundancy of review sources. I was just noticing that there seemed to be a complete absence of U.S. makers in the gear review section (with the exception of Mad River). It's nice to have balance. Also, numerous boats are listed with no reviews at all posted (almost the entire Bluewater, Mad River, Scott and Voyager lines). Some of the responders to this thread have answered my question as to why.


I agree that Paddling.net really only focuses on canoes that are readily available in the US, and MYCCR generally has more Canadian boats, as such comparing Canadian hulls and American hulls via online reviews is pretty sketchy.

The reason that there are not reviews for many models is that there are so many different models out there, and for many models there really aren't that many made, especially solos. How many Swift Ravens do you think they have made? Unlikely enough to get many useful reviews. Mad River had built thousands of tandem hulls, but a huge majority of them were Explorers or Malecites. How many folks have ever paddled an MRC Intrigue, how about a Sundance, a Sunrunner, a Courier, a Whistler, or a Lamoille. How about how many folks have ever been in a Swift Albany or a Madawaska? Some of those hulls were made for a decade or more... but it's tough to find someone who owned one to give a good review.

Then let's complicate it... I've paddled the Raven in both Royalex and the original wood strip plug. But neither were at the same time, and only the royalex canoe could be paddled at the same time as a somewhat comparable usage canoe, my MRC Guide/Freedom Solo. I've paddled my Guide in lots of different circumstances and can it compare against, other similar hulls, the Mohawk Odyssey, Bell Yellowstone Solo and composite Wildfire, along with a few more ecclectic oddballs. But then another similar hull the Novacraft Supernova was only paddled at times when I was paddling a composite Flashfire, so I feel like I'm comparing apples and oranges, desipe having strong opinions on which I would like based on my experiences. But really, can I give an unbiased comparison? Maybe only because they paddle quite differently.

Finally, a discussion Andy Lee and I have had on several occasions centers around that like the "Real" Chestnut Prospector issue, the same thing exists with modern boats. Issues like quality control, different craftsmen doing the same task, manufacturers doing running modifications, and owners tweaking their own hulls can have a huge effect on how one would review a hull.

Anyways, I love paddling canoes, and I like to read reviews, and I like writing my thoughts even more.... and while I'm glad that folks find my reviews useful, I'd caution anyone to take them as anything other than biased opinions based on how, where, when, and why I like to paddle.

PK


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