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 Post subject: Load capacity?
PostPosted: June 23rd, 2009, 10:13 pm 
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Joined: September 27th, 2008, 12:41 am
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Location: Warren, Manitoba
We have a new to us 18' Souris River canoe. It has a 34" beam. We need to know approx. what the weight capacity would be for this boat, optimal and/or industry standard. It is f/g with the flotation tanks front and rear.

Any ideas?

Thanks

Karin


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 Post subject: Re: Load capacity?
PostPosted: June 24th, 2009, 12:59 am 
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Joined: March 23rd, 2006, 11:21 pm
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Location: Burns Lake, BC
Hey Karin, we often trip with 600-650lbs in our Clipper Tripper and Hellman Prospector. Both boats are 17'6" and have a 35" beam.

I'm not a 100% sure, but I would guess we have at least 8 or 9" freeboard.

One trip we added another 180lb paddler and the freeboard was still plenty enough for a little rough water.

Just for reference- a Jensen Stock 18', with a 33" beam, has 9" of freeboard for a 400lb load. This may very well be the same design as your boat. Isn't yours a Jensen design?

Hope to see some still and action shots of the new canoe! :D

Hope this helps, Canoeheadted.


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 Post subject: Re: Load capacity?
PostPosted: June 24th, 2009, 9:35 am 
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Location: Bancroft, Ontario Canada
This must be the Souris River Wilderness... they don't publish any numbers on load capacity at the SR website, but Red Rock in Minnesota has a page describing it...

Quote:
Payload is 1200 lbs. with a good working load of 500 to 750 lbs.


With the center depth of 14.5 inches, your canoe will be able to take those heavy loads without swamping, but it'll become more and more sluggish by degrees as it becomes submerged more and more deeply in the water as the load is increased... it'll become harder and slower to turn.

A moderately narrow and heavily loaded 18-footer sitting low in the water won't be turned too easily once it gets going. Still, they describe it... "Unlike other 18' canoes, the Wilderness will turn and maneuver with grace." Maybe they've added in enough rocker to allow that with heavier loads... you'll get some sense of how easily it turns once it's paddled under a variety of loads.

http://www.redrockstore.com/wilderness18.html

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 Post subject: Re: Load capacity?
PostPosted: June 24th, 2009, 9:40 pm 
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Location: winnipeg
The canoe in question is the Jensen Huron 18. I don't know if SRC published a load capacity. Keith once responded to an e-mail saying it was similar to a Jensen Stock, but perhaps a little deeper. If people have experience tripping with the Jensen Stock, maybe that would be a helpful benchmark for performance?


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 Post subject: Re: Load capacity?
PostPosted: June 24th, 2009, 10:43 pm 
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Joined: December 29th, 2002, 7:00 pm
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Location: Bancroft, Ontario Canada
Quote:
The canoe in question is the Jensen Huron 18.


Hmmm, somebody must be psychic here, since that name isn't given in the question from the poster. My psychic powers aren't up to snuff to be able to match that, so I'll just get the ouija board out and get dead designers' ghosts to spell out that info.


Ooo, ouija board, ooo, what is the correct load capacity for this un-named clueless canoe question...


OUIJA BOARD SLOWLY POINTS OUT LETTERS...

..slowly... it says... IT SAYS...



...NEXT... TIME...

...DON'T...BOTHER...



<smacks self on forehead>

...damn... why didn't I think of that...?

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 Post subject: Re: Load capacity?
PostPosted: June 24th, 2009, 11:23 pm 
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Joined: December 19th, 2006, 8:47 pm
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Location: Rattlesnake Pond ME
We are all guessing here. I have a SR Wilderness 18 but never heard of it ever being made formerly in fiberglass.

It fits the OP's other criteria. It handles four hundred lbs of crew and two hundred lbs of gear. Its used on the Wabakimi Project as it can haul quite a bit and have sufficient freeboard to be safe on big lakes...though I was a bit concerned on those four footers that met us on Greenbush in the Caribou Forest. We made it to camp dry however.

It did OK maneuvering on up to Class 2 with that load. Beyond that we did not run as the reward did not outweigh the risk in the remote areas we were in.

My Ouija board is still not helping *huh?* it keeps saying "good bye"


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 Post subject: Re: Load capacity?
PostPosted: June 25th, 2009, 12:54 am 
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Location: Burns Lake, BC
I do believe that mr_canoehead18 was the previous owner.

But with an awesome name like "canoehead", I'm sure his "spidey/canoe sense" was tingling as well! :lol:


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 Post subject: Re: Load capacity?
PostPosted: June 25th, 2009, 7:44 am 
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Joined: September 27th, 2008, 12:41 am
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Location: Warren, Manitoba
My apologies for not remembering the specific model of canoe.

Thanks for your help, if we sink, I shant be reporting after our trip. :lol: :doh:


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 Post subject: Re: Load capacity?
PostPosted: June 25th, 2009, 9:02 am 
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Location: Rattlesnake Pond ME
Now we really are curious about just what you are taking on this trip.. Most canoes dont sink till about 1100 lbs in them but halving the payload generally gives you the best performance.

That still either is a good long trip or a well liquid stocked one.

Beer goes well with custard "in the face" pie. :lol: :lol:


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 Post subject: Re: Load capacity?
PostPosted: June 25th, 2009, 11:02 am 
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Mihun09 wrote:
We need to know approx. what the weight capacity would be for this boat, optimal and/or industry standard. It is f/g with the flotation tanks front and rear.



Is there an "industry standard"? :doh:

I'd think just about any 18' tripping canoe, no matter how fine the ends, should be able to hold 600 pounds without displacing more than 6" of water. That should leave you plenty of freeboard for almost any situation, but it doesn't mean the boat will be a joy to paddle.

Those Jensen designs have their max beam fairly low, so after a certain point they will sink deeper into the water rather quickly as weight is added, compared to a boat with a constant flare above the waterline. That weight could come in the form of water shipped while slicing through big waves, so my advice is to keep the weight down well below that point.

FYI... those flotation tanks won't help a bit to increase the boat's carrying capacity, they are put in there to keep the boat from sinking once you've exceeded it. :wink:

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 Post subject: Re: Load capacity?
PostPosted: June 25th, 2009, 11:11 am 
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Location: Rattlesnake Pond ME
Quote:
Is there an "industry standard"?


No more than the elusive "rocker" :wink:

My usual suspicion is that the word "Capacity" means one lb more and its a submarine.

"Performance Capacity" or "Optimal Load" means ten percent more than that and you will feel like you are paddling a sea slug.


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 Post subject: Re: Load capacity?
PostPosted: June 25th, 2009, 1:10 pm 
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Joined: September 27th, 2008, 12:41 am
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Location: Warren, Manitoba
This moring I measured the center depth to be 12", which is the same as my Mattawa, which likely would reduce the load capacity.

We don't fall into the travel light category, we just make more trips on the portages, of which there will be 15 or so each way on this trip even with high water.

A few of our luxuries include a Coleman 2 burner naptha stove, Coleman stove stand, Eureka 8 person tent, Coleman queen sized air bed. We both have bad backs and the bed makes it easier to get out of bed in the morning, and the tent holds all our gear and we can stand up in it.

We do have it down to minimal loads though and don't take alot of clothes. Heck, there isn't anyone out there, we could go naked.

We have only one large lake to cross, Wallace Lake and we usually are heading straight into the prevailing NW wind. The oddities are boat wakes.

Karin


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 Post subject: Re: Load capacity?
PostPosted: June 28th, 2009, 1:15 pm 
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The "capacity" figures are derived by loading the boat until it has 6" of freeboard. This is the Coast Guard mandated requirement and has nothing to do with a boat's performance , safety or anything else. The Coast Guard just needed figure to have builders put on name plates etc.

Most canoes loaded this way are probably verging on being unsafe. BK's advice regarding Jensen designs is frequently valid as often they have tumblehome that starts well down on the hull.

Although it is easy enough to design around a specific load range most boats are not designed that way you are on your own. My advice is to get some sand bags and try the boat with a range of loads so you can tell just how much more or less load affects how it handles and performs in waves. Once you get to a point where you can notice a deterioration in performance you have reached the practical max.

Keep in mind that you can start out heavy and the load will decrease as you eat or drink your way through your supplies. In sailboat design we design around what is called the "half-load" condition which is the boat plus everything else but only 1/2 the water and food. I suggested that Harry Roberts use the designed half-load in the Canoeport Journal boat specs and he just laughed. So I dropped the idea. Harry knew the customer base pretty well.

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 Post subject: Re: Load capacity?
PostPosted: June 29th, 2009, 7:18 am 
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Jwinters wrote:
Keep in mind that you can start out heavy and the load will decrease as you eat or drink your way through your supplies. In sailboat design we design around what is called the "half-load" condition which is the boat plus everything else but only 1/2 the water and food. I suggested that Harry Roberts use the designed half-load in the Canoeport Journal boat specs and he just laughed. So I dropped the idea. Harry knew the customer base pretty well.


Ah yes, Uncle Harry. Rest his soul. Yeah, he knew his customer base and the canoe buying public very well indeed. I personally don't see a problem with a designed half-load measurement but unless there was an industry standard for how you calculate it so that you can compare a Swift to a Mad River, the number has limited value just like Rocker as Kim mentioned. Personally, I find it humourous that people place unequivicol faith in a capacity number. As Kim mentioned, those 1200 lb figures are loony as at with a total mass of 400 pounds of paddlers, at 70 pounds a port it's 11 trips across. Even 400 pounds would be a pretty serious load for much tripping.

Anyways, we all have an idea of what and how much we can't live without on our canoe trips. But it was good to see someone remember Harry.

PK


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 Post subject: Re: Load capacity?
PostPosted: June 29th, 2009, 8:06 am 
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PK

Quote:
Personally, I find it humourous that people place unequivicol faith in a capacity number. As Kim mentioned, those 1200 lb figures are loony as at with a total mass of 400 pounds of paddlers, at 70 pounds a port it's 11 trips across.


I must have had about that much in a 16' Prospector, carrying gravel and cement bags from one side of a lake to another. This could have been unsafe with waves but the lake was calm and the crossings were made without any trouble. Still kinda unnerving when you know that the canoe will sink like a rock straight to the bottom if there's an upset. But with that kind of load, a Prospector becomes very, very stable. The main worry is in hitting something with that much momentum driving it forward (after much energy is spent getting it going forward, of course).

On other trips, carrying scientific gear for environmental assessments at some god-forsaken mining proposal, we had other canoes loaded up with heavy gear, none of which was designed to be lightweight. Knowing the maximum capacity would have been helpful beforehand, but the orders were just sent in and a canoe was thrown off the train or there was one already at the camp. These may have been overloaded enough to be unsafe at least once, but you gotta do what you gotta do.

IIRC, Prospectors were named because they were supposed to be good at carrying bags of rocks from mining claims staked out by prospectors, along with all the other heavy gear needed to be transported out into the bush, and to and from the work site.

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