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PostPosted: September 14th, 2009, 7:06 pm 
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I noticed that some cracks are starting to form inside the canoe, where some 'braces' (for lack of better word) are. On of them lets a bit of water coming in when pressed to do so eg. when sitting on the bottom of the canoe. I've already patched the outside using a product called Cold Cure that I once bought at a canoe store that is now out of business. This is what I could use for the outside. Can the same product be applied on the inside ?

Is Cold Cure the best product for this ? Is it available a Canadian Tire ?

Here's an example of such cracks. They're all to be found on the same side of the canoe, the one used for portage.

Attachment:
canoe-1.jpg


And here's a view from the outside.

Attachment:
canoe-4.jpg


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PostPosted: September 14th, 2009, 8:59 pm 
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The structure you depict that is cracked is often described as a cross rib. They are generally foam. If it were me, I'd patch the outside with gell coat repair. You can get it at a marine place in generally one color... white. But I would just fill the gouge and call that side good. On the inside you might want to use a piece of fiberglass tape either run parrallel to the rib if you can get it wide enough to cover, otherwise just across the end of the rib. Apply using a quality two part epoxy. You might want to apply a varnish or PU with UV inhibitors to protect the epoxy from the sun. But I think you'd be fine with that for many years.

PK


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PostPosted: September 14th, 2009, 10:35 pm 
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The product is great and can be used anywhere.

I would grind off the gelcoat and do a couple of layer of fiberglass cloth on the outside. Grind off the interior paint and rough up the surface. Two layers of cloth here as well. Top coat both with two layers of just resin. Lightly scuff up the finished product and hit with a spray bomb.

Simple, easy, and bombproof. I would think that anything less is just a bandaid. But this is just my thinking....


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PostPosted: September 15th, 2009, 10:19 am 
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carcossonne, it might help to know what kind of canoe this is. Particularly for the outside, as it would be Kevlar for a Wenonah but glass for many other "Kevlar" boats like my Bluewater and Millbrook.


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PostPosted: September 15th, 2009, 6:48 pm 
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in the short-term I'd grab a roll of waterproof tape, the silver thin stuff, and put it on (you eel off a backing, and it has a very goopy blue glue). then you could add a few layers, or a layer of gorilla tape to protect it.
no ideas for a permanent fit.

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PostPosted: September 15th, 2009, 7:22 pm 
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ezwater wrote:
it might help to know what kind of canoe this is. Particularly for the outside, as it would be Kevlar for a Wenonah but glass for many other "Kevlar" boats like my Bluewater and Millbrook.


That 'd be a Langford. I was 'prescribed' (and did apply) the Cold Cure product on the outside. Is that right for this type of canoe ?


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PostPosted: September 15th, 2009, 7:40 pm 
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I just bought a used Langford Nahanni with identical interior cracks. I just picked up some fiberglass resin ( Can Tire ) and patched with some fiberglass cloth. I'd make sure the crack got filled with resin then lay over a piece about 4x6 inches and that was it. Only had it out on one canoe trip so far but seems to have held.
I've noticed a repair or two on the outside as well. Seems the same thing was done. Just a single layer or maybe two of cloth and then some paint.


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PostPosted: September 15th, 2009, 7:54 pm 
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i've day paddled with a guy who has a weathered langford prospector, (he had it on some very nice long trips, with one very unfortunate rip to boot). I'd say he let the repairs wait a bit long and cracks appeared along many of the foam ribs. he repaired with liberal amounts of cloth and resin, which worked fine, but sooner the better so the weakness in one area doesn't cause a secondary issue. amazingly, even with goopy resin etc it is still very light.

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PostPosted: September 16th, 2009, 12:16 am 
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Quote:
I was 'prescribed' (and did apply) the Cold Cure product on the outside. Is that right for this type of canoe ?


Would that be Industrial Formulators, Cold Cure? It would work fine for the repair you pictured as would any marine laminating epoxy really.

You'll want to rough up the surface along either side of the crack (in & out) and apply the cold cure with some light weight material. Kevlar doesn't sand or grind all that well and if there is kevlar fabric exposed to water it will wick so should be well coated with epoxy. Throw some epoxy paint over it would help with UV degradation.

Most manufacturers use a vinylester resin in their kevlar boats but I don't know about the Langfords.


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PostPosted: September 16th, 2009, 9:16 am 
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Once Kevlar is encapsulated in epoxy, it won't "wick" even if some fibers are exposed at the surface. Whitewater boaters have tons of experience with Kevlar layups that got scuffed, and no wicking effect is observed.

A comment about Langford ribs based on the photos. The ribs are too thick. They should have been thinner with softer edges so that they could bend with blows without cracking. Also, the thickness and the sharp edges on the ribs just make for difficult repairs.


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PostPosted: September 16th, 2009, 11:14 am 
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Quote:
Once Kevlar is encapsulated in epoxy, it won't "wick" even if some fibers are exposed at the surface.


quite true, however...... with the fracturing visible in the pic's the kevlar is not longer "encapsulated" and water will find it's way into the laminate at the fracture. When doing the repair time should be allowed for the water to dry before patching over it for best results.

I believe Langford is using vac infusion for their kevlar offerings and, most likely, a vinylester resin so epoxy would be an excellent choice for a repair of this type.


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PostPosted: September 16th, 2009, 12:13 pm 
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Kevlar is not unique in having some tendency for water to be absorbed into individual fiber strands. Nylon is about equal to Kevlar in this tendency, while polyester (CAP etc.) also absorbs water somewhat. My Bluewater has a Kevlar/Nylon/glass layup. My old Phoenix is 100% CAP polyester and vinylester resin. My old Noah has some combination of Kevlar and CAP, with vinylester. The Phoenix and the Noah were subjected to considerable fuzzin and some slashes into the laminate. I was never able to discern any tendency for them to gain weight or delaminate due to fiber absorption. Because some of my boats were vacuum bagged, with Kevlar on the inside of the hull, and because vacuum bagging will essentially leave the sides of the Kevlar fibers, facing inward, devoid of resin covering, one must assume that water can be absorbed by the Kevlar fibers. Yet this seems not to happen.

I have googled all over the web on things related to Kevlar composite, and I have never seen a researcher cite water absorption as a problem. One paper I found showed that an aramid layup became more flexible because of hot water affecting the epoxy resin, but there was no problem cited about the Kevlar fibers.

So, I submit that the notion that Kevlar is associated with problems with water absorption, may be a suburban myth. I simply have not been able to find evidence that there is such a problem.


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PostPosted: September 18th, 2009, 11:28 am 
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Just to clarify...... water will wick, infiltrate, seep, migrate etc., into any voids or fabric exposed or compromised "at the fracture" and some thought should be given to making sure the area being repaired is dried well before adding the repair material. Wicking into the laminate beyond the fracture isn't an issue.

Hope that clears up any confusion.


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PostPosted: September 18th, 2009, 6:27 pm 
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the old worry was not only wicking, but that a softening would result - the cloth could go mushy, weak and then deteriorate completely. someone last year, and kom better yet here, show why that is a senseless concern. if a cross-fibre material will fill the tiny gaps with water, it can't be good for anything, but I no longer worry about spidecracks and minor damage being the gateway to pure hull destruction and the unfortunate experience of having a canoe turn to wet kleenex with me in it - I know you'll all be relieved I don't lose sleep over that (anymore). we, the fraternity of the fragile langford gelcoats have to get some rest too.

_________________
Midway 'twixt earth and heaven....
Above, below
Drift with my drifting, dim and slow,
As twilight drifts to even.
- Pauline Johnson -


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PostPosted: September 18th, 2009, 6:38 pm 
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Quote:
but I no longer worry about spidecracks and minor damage being the gateway to pure hull destruction and the unfortunate experience of having a canoe turn to wet kleenex with me in it


Darn those old klennex canoes anyway................... :lol:


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