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PostPosted: February 1st, 2010, 10:53 am 
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Nice boat, WNC!

FYI, I was told by someone very knowledgeable (maybe it was Dan Miller himself) that Peterborough made no W/C canoes during that time period. It was likely made by either Chestnut or Canadian Canoe - with the Peterborough decal applied later - on a form that would have been basically the same as a Chestnut Chum.

Where are you taking the measurement of the beam? Info from Dan Miller's excellent Dragonfly Canoe website gives the Chum in two configurations. The first style was built around 1955-65. It had a 32" beam (measured at the outside of the planking, not the outside of the gunwales), 12" in depth and 1 1/2" wide ribs. The post-1965 model was 2" wider at the beam, 12 1/2" deep and had 2 3/8" wide ribs. If you measure your canoe and it is in fact 32" taken from the planking, the you obviously have the earlier (and much more desirable) model. If it is 33", it may have been made on the "Gooseberry" form.

As far as it being the "perfect solo canoe", I'm sure it is. I know Dan Miller fairly well as he used to live near me before taking on his present duties as the curator of the Antique Boat Museum in Clayton, NY (you absolutely must go visit there). He has both a Minetta and a Bell Wildfire. He much prefers the Minetta for numerous reasons. He says it is just a way more fun canoe to paddle, the best solo canoe he has ever tried. I was offered the opportunity to paddle both the Minetta and the Wildfire side-by-side in order to make my mind which I liked better, but life kept getting in the way and then he moved away.

But... when he moved to Clayton, he left his form for the 14' Chestnut Fox in my care. Last year, I bought about 800 bd.ft. of the clearest northern white cedar in order to make as many Foxes as I can get done. Soon as I get the right stem and gunwale stock, I'm off to the races.

I also have an original Chestnut Pal that was in real nice shape until recently. When I feel brave enough, I'll post some pics and an attempt at an explanation for my stupidity regarding it's current condition. Right now, I'm just a little too embarrassed. Suffice it to say that I will not shirk my duties as the custodian of this fine craft and will set about restoring it in full come spring. If I like it enough, I just may have a canoe sale and get rid of some of my other boats. No sense in floating around in a composite if I can ride in style in the real deal.

BTW, be careful how you word your titles here. Everybody like to jump on the phrase "perfect canoe" and slam the idea. Many seemed to ignore the part where you said it was "your pick". As well, don't use the word forms "free" and "style" in the same sentence or they will automatically be morphed into FreeStyle, a very narrow subset of solo canoeing. "Canoe ballet" says it all for me, and your canoe will do that dance just fine. :wink:

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PostPosted: February 1st, 2010, 11:52 am 
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Location: Bancroft, Ontario Canada
Glad to see you posting here after your absence, BK... your woodworking skills moving away would have left a permanent gap otherwise.

From earlier advice and Cobain's pix on paddlemaking I searched out the perfect black walnut board... damn, there's that word again.

Black walnut provides piles of joy and so does the heat from all those wood shavings on the floor. After ice-out we see, how perfection feels... the suspense is killing me.

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PostPosted: February 1st, 2010, 10:09 pm 
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Glad to be back, FT. I've been hiding on a wood stove forum, so I guess now I can better take the heat on CCR. :lol:

Black walnut.... Yummy! :thumbup:

I wish I could get my hands on tons of the stuff. Can't wait to see the fruits of your labor when you're done. Just remember: the perfect plank requires that you make the perfect paddle from it.

No pressure or anything... :wink:

Oh... you will use an oil finish, won't you? :roll: :lol:

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PostPosted: February 2nd, 2010, 7:46 am 
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Piles of joy. Is that an oxymoron or does it reflect the masochistic? :rofl:


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PostPosted: February 2nd, 2010, 10:50 am 
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BK,

Quote:
... you will use an oil finish, won't you?


Damn... I'm working with some epoxy today and that's on the paddle already.

See, already an error because you were away!

:wink:

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PostPosted: February 10th, 2010, 12:49 am 
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Location: Rattlesnake Pond ME
Perfection is situational to the materials at hand and your environment. I just finished a paddle trip in Belize and while using a kayak I could not help but notice the native use of the canoe while there.

I saw conch fishermen using 12 foot long solos with constant flare and a seat aft of centerline for diving off the boat and freediving for conch. They were well off shore (60 miles) in waters about 30 feet deep with ocean rollers. They need stability in the wide part of the boat for reentry in challenging conditions. The boats are now being made out of fiberglass and quite heavy but not a problem for hoisting into sailboats that they use for overnight accommodations.


And inland in the jungles and rivers dugouts made of guanacaste were the solo norm. Ugly? Yep..Practical..yep..about 11-12 foot long depending on the log available. I saw them exclusively for fishingh with handlines. Guancaste is a neat wood that is resistant to rot and relatively light. Mahogany is sometimes used as those trees also grow to a suitable diameter.

While Kevlar canoes are available they are out of the reach of most paddlers there who need a boat to make a living.


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PostPosted: February 10th, 2010, 11:52 am 
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I fully agree that in both of the cases you illustrate those boats were "perfect" for their users in their intended purpose. And for the OP, his perfect canoe was the Minetta. There are obviously perfect canoes for very specific usages. A Proboat is the perfect boat for Andy Triebold in a Triple Crown Marathon Race, but that's different than what Eli Helbert hucks in a whitewater freestyle event, and Michel Martikan runs gates with. The broader casting of your net within canoeing exposes you to multiple perfect canoes in narrowly defined subdisciplines.... for me that negates the "perfect" moniker.

But like I said in a prior post... it's just fun to think about cool canoes but realize that people around the world canoe, and all have boats designed for their specific usages. None of these folks worry about whether that boat is perfect or not (most probably don't even know that other canoes exist for that matter).

PK


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PostPosted: February 18th, 2010, 9:13 am 
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Hey I've got a dozen or so canoes, all quite different and all perfect when I'm using them right.

I'd say perfection is in the eye of the beholder.

Nice to hear or your perfect canoe. Sounds sweet!


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PostPosted: February 21st, 2010, 11:48 am 
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Battenkiller wrote:
Nice boat, WNC!

FYI, I was told by someone very knowledgeable (maybe it was Dan Miller himself) that Peterborough made no W/C canoes during that time period. It was likely made by either Chestnut or Canadian Canoe - with the Peterborough decal applied later - on a form that would have been basically the same as a Chestnut Chum.

Where are you taking the measurement of the beam? Info from Dan Miller's excellent Dragonfly Canoe website gives the Chum in two configurations. The first style was built around 1955-65. It had a 32" beam (measured at the outside of the planking, not the outside of the gunwales), 12" in depth and 1 1/2" wide ribs. The post-1965 model was 2" wider at the beam, 12 1/2" deep and had 2 3/8" wide ribs. If you measure your canoe and it is in fact 32" taken from the planking, the you obviously have the earlier (and much more desirable) model. If it is 33", it may have been made on the "Gooseberry" form.

As far as it being the "perfect solo canoe", I'm sure it is. I know Dan Miller fairly well as he used to live near me before taking on his present duties as the curator of the Antique Boat Museum in Clayton, NY (you absolutely must go visit there). He has both a Minetta and a Bell Wildfire. He much prefers the Minetta for numerous reasons. He says it is just a way more fun canoe to paddle, the best solo canoe he has ever tried. I was offered the opportunity to paddle both the Minetta and the Wildfire side-by-side in order to make my mind which I liked better, but life kept getting in the way and then he moved away.....BTW, be careful how you word your titles here. Everybody like to jump on the phrase "perfect canoe" and slam the idea. Many seemed to ignore the part where you said it was "your pick". As well, don't use the word forms "free" and "style" in the same sentence or they will automatically be morphed into FreeStyle, a very narrow subset of solo canoeing. "Canoe ballet" says it all for me, and your canoe will do that dance just fine. :wink:

Battenkiller
You are very correct....few Peterborough canvas canoes made in Peterborough after the amalgamation of Chestnut and Peterborough companies (and later Canadian company in 1927) under Canadian Watercraft Ltd. in 1923; most made at Chestnut factory and decal put on saying Peterborough. After 1923 the Peterborough Canoe Co branch concentrated on building their all-wood canoes and boats, but actually built canvas covered as well until sometime in the early to mid 1950’s. However, most of their canvas covered freight and prospector series were built by Chestnut from 1923. Canadian Canoe Co built their own series of canoes and boats, but also built both Chestnut and Peterborough models when the other branches i.e. Chestnut and Peterborough were over extended.

Measurements for Minetta (15 x 33 x 12) from Dragonfly list....Minetta was made prior to 1962 (when Peterborough company ceased operation) so if made on same form as Chestnut Chum then obviously slightly different....1952 Peterborough catalogue shows Minetta in same dimensions I provided....BTW, when I originally enquired of the seller for measurements, he gave 32.5 inches as width....but my canoe is Minetta, likely made in 1956, with serial number 3626 1815

Here's lines of Minetta from WCHA forum....I believe taken by Dan Miller:

Image

And another pic of Minetta by Mike Elliot of Kettle River Canoes, BC:

Image

BTW sorry for length of post (and lateness in reply....but I've been busy refinishing a wood-canvas canoe....lots of elbow work involved LOL LOL)....and Battenkiller is right about the "perfect solo canoe" tag....that's a whole can of worms....but the Minetta is my perfect canoe....until I buy the next canoe any way LOL LOL

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There are times I’d like to wander down a river without end,
In a hull of flowing cedar, carved by knowing hands....[/i]
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PostPosted: February 21st, 2010, 5:36 pm 
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Quote:
As well, don't use the word forms "free" and "style" in the same sentence or they will automatically be morphed into FreeStyle, a very narrow subset of solo canoeing.


Piffle..no.. its handy for tripping or whitewater in any canoe you can do cross strokes in.

If you have long enough arms the Minetta may be fine. Otherwise Canadian style covers all the compass points.

But wow its shallow for a 15 footer. My 13 foot Nakoma (which looks almost like the Minetta but shrunk) is 12 inches deep.


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PostPosted: February 21st, 2010, 5:44 pm 
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Hey WNC, did you buy this boat from Tom?

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PostPosted: February 22nd, 2010, 7:54 am 
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No not from Tom.

And I prefer to think that when you're canoeing you can "free" yourself and do so in "style". (Sorry couldn't help myself LOL LOL)

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[i]And the paddle, in the water, is a long, lost friend.
There are times I’d like to wander down a river without end,
In a hull of flowing cedar, carved by knowing hands....[/i]
From [i]Shield[/i] by Dave Hadfield

http://reflectionsoutdoors.wordpress.c


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