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PostPosted: August 16th, 2013, 9:11 am 
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thx pblanc.

Yeah From the reading I have done that seems to be the consensus. I should have researched this further prior to application.. However I have used this marine shop for years and not being a daily boat builder I naturally assumed they would know more than I would in boat building.... and resins.

Never Assume....

So would you say then I should 'NOT' apply any further resin either EPOXY nor Polyester to the hull???

the primer I have is a Interlux I believe.


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PostPosted: August 16th, 2013, 10:21 am 
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The concern is that you have an incomplete cure that will result in debonding. I don't think applying epoxy over the polyester is going to fix that. That's why I would sand off as much as you can after it has cured as much as it is going to.

A decent marine primer will probably do as much to fill in any low spots as another coat of resin would.


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PostPosted: August 16th, 2013, 10:29 am 
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Pblanc,

ok I see what you mean. I am hoping that another full day in the sun will completely cure the current polyester resin - would it not?
I am not sure what was used by the Outfitters but I gave it a full soap wash and rinse prior to the sanding as well as afterwards. I would imagine that the Polyester resin should still adhere to the previous coating... At least I am hoping - because basically if not then I have essentially ruined the canoe forever...


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PostPosted: August 16th, 2013, 10:36 am 
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Correction - the primer and paint I have currently is 'Epifane Multi Marine Primer' and 'Polyurethane paint'...

any thoughts?


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PostPosted: August 16th, 2013, 10:41 am 
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http://www.clcboats.com/shoptips/boat-p ... hanes.html

I have the paint on both my littleredcanoes. BUT neither of them have an epoxy layer so I will defer to the link above.


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PostPosted: August 16th, 2013, 11:31 am 
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I would still wait a couple of weeks even after the resin appears cured for it to cure as much as possible. I don't know if polyester blushes in the manner that some epoxies do as they cure. Wet sanding and washing before priming will remove the blush (if any) that forms during cure.

I have generally used marine polyurethane paints and primers from either Petit (Z-Spar products) or Interlux, but Epifane products have a good reputation. I assume you have a one part primer and one part polyurethane paint. (Two part paints will have 2 separate containers each for primer and paint.)

One part products are best applied using a foam roller and immediately "tipping out" with a disposable foam brush. If you have a helper to go along behind you with a foam brush as you apply the paint with a roller and tip it out immediately it is best. Usually you want to apply the paint with the roller with strokes diagonal to the keel line of the canoe, then immediately roll over again with strokes taken along the keel line. Epiphane probably has info regarding optimal application techniques on their website and the info from Chesapeake Light Craft is also good.

You will need to apply at least 2 coats of paint and possibly 3, as thinly as possible. Wet sanding after the primer will help assure adhesion and smooth out any "high spots". If you have visible low spots after the first primer coat you can sand and apply another coat of primer.


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PostPosted: August 16th, 2013, 12:22 pm 
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thx again.

Yes the primer is a one part "all in one" primer. Whereas the paint is a two part poly-urethane paint.

Unfortunately I don't have that much time to wait. It has already been a week and we need the canoe in one weeks time... So I need to get it finished.

I will try as you suggested though.


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PostPosted: August 16th, 2013, 5:31 pm 
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I still agree with the comment that suggests go paddle now, make it pretty later. (I'm paraphrasing.) You'll do no harm to paddle now, waiting to finish the project until later. On the other hand, if you rush coating over a resin that is not 100% cured, that doesn't seem like a good thing.

Sorry, but I don't really see the point of the skim coat over the repairs, it just sounds like added weight to me, unless perhaps it were tinted resin that becomes the base of the paint. Having said that, I'm sure I've done the same thing in essence.

I have little polyester resin experience, but I did do some kayak repairs this spring with a waxed polyester resin gelcoat. The material cures best in the absence of oxygen, the wax is added to the mixture to float to the surface and exclude the oxygen. That's all fine and dandy, but then you got this waxy stuff on the surface. I had some cure problems when I coated an area, went and worked on another area, then came back and added a bit more gelcoat to the first area - with epoxy that would have been the perfect thing to do, ensuring a nice chemical bond. With the polyester resin gelcoat, I think I was just adding stuff over top of a waxy layer and the result was a bit of a mess - slow to cure or not curing.

Sure makes a guy appreciate epoxy - low volatiles, consistent cure, you know what works.

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PostPosted: August 16th, 2013, 5:56 pm 
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You can get pretty good results with spray paint.. You might want the shininess of marine enamel but I have taken to applying flat grey or beige paint to the bottom football...the part below the waterline.

Flat neutral paints hide scratches well and make a nice contrast with a bright topside color.

What flat spray paint? Krylon..from the hardware store. Get a scratch? Spray away. Flat paint also blends better with previously painted surfaces.

Don't rush the paint job. My hubby and I sanded down one of our canoes to bare fabric and it took five coats of paint, interim sandings and a week of mostly waiting between coats. We could do a coat a day..humid days made us spend an extra day waiting. Given your schedule, I would paint later. Painting is a job you really don't want to rush


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PostPosted: August 16th, 2013, 6:41 pm 
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Sorry, one more point in favour of waiting - the longer you wait, the more it cures and the harder it gets. I really don't think you want to paddle on fresh paint; might look great when you launch, but the scratch resistance won't be what it should be.

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PostPosted: August 17th, 2013, 9:11 am 
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If you're worried about the effects of UV breaking down the polyester resin if you do decide to wait and paint later... I made trays with that stuff to start potted seeds in and they've been used for about 20 years, out in full sun during spring. They're still strong with no serious disintegration from UV damage.

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Last edited by frozentripper on August 17th, 2013, 9:17 am, edited 2 times in total.

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PostPosted: August 17th, 2013, 9:14 am 
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To All,

thanks for the suggestions.

I must admit I am leaning towards waiting on the paint... lol

The canoe sat in the sun yesterday and was scorching hot and the resin did cure partially at least to the touch..... But when I brought it in to the shop and let it cool and tried sanding a few spots it came up 'gummy' on the sand paper... Ive done enough work with glass and canoes and refinishing to get that sinking feeling (no pun intended)... A number of choice words came to mind...

SO I spent the next 4hrs sanding with some water with little success -So I am back at it today.. The plan is this:

1) completely sand off as much of the POLYESTER resin as I can that is the majority of the hull. Anything that was used as filler is completely cured and should be fine and there is NO way that I could remove it without cutting up the canoe...

2) As I am pretty sure that I will be bringing up some fiberglass fibers at this point I will re-coat the entire hull with an EPOXY resin....

At this point we are going camping a week from today so perhaps what I am thinking as you suggest as well is to wait???? Let the Epoxy xure for an entire week... go camping.. then paint?

Agreed?


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PostPosted: August 17th, 2013, 4:27 pm 
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Why epoxy at all if you are going to paint? I would wait and take the boat on its trip and then come home and sand off what you want.

Paint is a finish layer. So is varnish. So is epoxy. None are structural.


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PostPosted: August 17th, 2013, 8:21 pm 
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If you're down to cloth then you do want to have a layer of epoxy down before painting.
Paint or varnish won't cut it.


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PostPosted: August 18th, 2013, 7:19 am 
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I've been in Canada's Algonquin for two weeks and missed all the above. P Blanc is dead on, but I'd go a step further.

Polyester does not bond well to epoxy. Worse, nothing much will bond to waxed poly resin. The good news is the wax floats to the top, so can be sanded and acetone ragged off. The Poly layer needs be removed, starting with acetone and rag on the uncured areas. Then sand the poly down, again cleaning with acetone. This will be a grunt but will strengthen your arms wonderfully. You can expect any remaining Polyester resin to de-laminate in sheets at some inconvenient later date, carrying whatever you've put over it along. Sorry.


Last edited by Charlie Wilson on August 18th, 2013, 12:39 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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