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PostPosted: April 21st, 2014, 4:24 pm 
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Joined: April 7th, 2014, 5:30 pm
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Greetings all! I recently found your forum while researching for a canoe trip this spring. My cousin, brother and myself are planning on trying our hand at building a canoe for the trip. We only have 6 weeks to do it and none of us have a ton of free time to devote to the project. This has got us down to two different designs (although if there's one we missed, we'd be happy to hear about it). Either a plywood canoe or a skin-on-frame design looks like it'll fit our criteria of;

a) cheap
b) quick to build
c) not too complicated (we are newbies at this)

So, my questions are first of all, which would be the more sturdy design? (We're kicking around the idea of spraying the finished boat with a smooth finish bed-liner to give it added durability.) Secondly, which would be the lighter? (Several portages on our planned route.) And last, which would be the easier design for newbs to tackle? (Also, any actual DESIGN PLANS would be a bonus. *idea* )

I'm looking forward to giving this a try and would appreciate any and all help offered. :D


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PostPosted: April 21st, 2014, 8:21 pm 
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Joined: April 14th, 2004, 4:26 pm
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Location: Toronto
I have built and refinished a few boats.

My suggestion is make some nice paddles. That is a manageable project for effectivly 4 weekends.

Really the only other possible option is to find a canoe, wax it up and use it as a plug for a glass/kevlar boat. If you have 4 weekends and fiberglass experiance this could be doable. You are going to want the last weekend for sea trials and tweaks before comitting to a back country trip.

You are also going to need time for plan B.

You should be able to find a rotted out or otherwise unserviceable but fair hull that can be bondo'd into service for close to free.

Dont expect this boat to be free. You are looking at close to $1000 in materials + time to build even a moderately serviceable hull. A good used boat with proven desgin and construction is by far a better deal.

Otoh, the project could be fun if building things turns your crank. Let us know how it goes.
G

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PostPosted: April 21st, 2014, 11:45 pm 
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Thanks for the reply. Yes, we have a plan B. I have a place all lined up to rent a canoe from if this fails, or even goes over time budget, so I'm not worried about that. I would like to take our annual backcountry camping trip in a canoe I helped make though, if possible.

I'm not sure about the other two, but the little fiberglass experience I have has convinced me I don't want any MORE experience. :D This is the main reason we are looking at the plywood or skin on frame designs. I also want something light, since taking the borrowed 18' fiberglass back there last year was not fun on the portages.

I fully expect this to cost money. Materials alone should be in the $200 to $500 range, depending on design and final coating choice. (I'm really pushing for the smooth finish bed-liner. Anyone have any experience with a boat coated with this material? I'm intensely curious how it would work out.) It's still cheaper then a new canoe, especially since I haven't done this nearly enough to know what kind of canoe I want or need. Cost is not really the point, it's more the fun of building something cool with the boys then taking it out camping. I just want to know the pros and cons of the different designs and this forum seems to have a lot of knowledgeable enthusiasts, so I thought I'd pick some brains. :)


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PostPosted: April 22nd, 2014, 6:57 am 
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Location: Toronto
Stich and glue boats still need to be glassed.

I have been paddling in ontario and quebec since I was 9. I have never seen anyone in a skin on frame canoe, kayaks and packboats excepted. I think there is a reason for this. But i dont have any experiance building or paddling them so I will refrain from opining.

I am curious why you would want to use truck bed liner if weight of the canoe it an issue? Why not use some marine varnish? Its purpose built and proven in this application and can be applied to whatever composite or wood exterior you choose.

Fwiw, just the epoxy in the s&g boat will cost $200 +/-. The okume wood will be $500-600. Misc supplies will he another couple of hundred.

Seats, thwarts and gunnwales need to be made from good straight grain hardwood. Softwood or knotty hardwood will fail almost immediately. Will you make these or buy?

If you have any hope of building in your time frame you will need to buy a kit with precut panels. Also, you need to order today in order to ensure deliver.

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PostPosted: April 22nd, 2014, 8:10 am 
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Joined: July 28th, 2008, 9:29 pm
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Location: Winnipeg
Wow, that's a tall order. I would buy a used boat for now and fix it up for this years trip. Then this coming fall and winter get some plans and build a cedar strip. Look at the Bear Mountain site for excellent plans.That is the route that I went. Used boats first to get on the water, since it is about paddling first. Get out and enjoy. As you can afford better canoes you will appreciate the upgrade from your first beaters.

We are now building / restoring our canoes and have several on the go at any one time. It turns into a great hobby that is not overly expensive, usually. Good luck and post a trip report when you are back.

Christy


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PostPosted: April 22nd, 2014, 8:55 am 
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Joined: December 29th, 2002, 7:00 pm
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Location: Bancroft, Ontario Canada
FOUR HOURS (actually 4.5 hours)

http://www.storerboatplans.com/wp/news/ ... n-4-hours/


Googling - plywood - and - canoe - will show more!

PS... if anybody asks, you didn't get this info from me...

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PostPosted: April 22nd, 2014, 9:53 am 
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Joined: August 27th, 2002, 7:00 pm
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Location: Geraldton, Ontario Can
I have this book
http://www.amazon.ca/Building-Six-Hour- ... 0961039671

Haven't built one, but doesn't look too hard. It would be a solo canoe though.


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PostPosted: April 22nd, 2014, 12:11 pm 
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Joined: October 9th, 2009, 9:52 am
Posts: 867
Location: Toronto Beach(es)
Dan. wrote:

My suggestion is make some nice paddles. That is a manageable project for effectivly 4 weekends.

G


Best advice was the first advice.

Save the build for when time constraints aren't a factor and enjoy your new boat next spring.


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PostPosted: April 22nd, 2014, 9:28 pm 
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Joined: April 7th, 2014, 5:30 pm
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Thanks for all the responses guys!

The bed-liner idea is mine (well, sort of, I stole it from MythBusters to be honest), it's a theory I have on making what might be an otherwise fragile boat (the skin-on-frame in particular) into something a bit more robust. If that stuff could save a brick wall from a stick of C4, it should be able to save a canoe from a sharp rock, yes? I'll take an extra 5-10 lbs in weight over having a hole in my only means out of the bush any day. :)

Thanks for those links guys! First glance looks promising, I'll check them out more thoroughly later.

As for the Stitch-and-Glue needing glassing, yeah, true. But it needs a lot less glassing then a full fiberglass or even a stripper. I'm looking for a minimum of glassing, unless one of my co-builders will step up and take that bullet for the team. :)

I will post pictures of us building it once construction commences, hopefully next week. And of course a trip summary once we get back. I'm looking forward to this, if the damn ice ever melts, that is... >:(


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PostPosted: April 23rd, 2014, 7:52 am 
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Location: Toronto
Reminds me of when i was tree planting. Someone showed how you could melt through a hardhat with deet, and thus refused to use it. My response was that i am glad not to be made of plastic.

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PostPosted: April 23rd, 2014, 2:15 pm 
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Joined: March 21st, 2013, 11:30 am
Posts: 128
Location: Minden, NV USA
Boat building is not an art that lends itself to being in a hurry. I agree with the above posters. Rent a boat for the trip or buy a used one.

Stitch and glue is a great style of building boats. I put together a Pygmy Coho of African mahogany. It was a great kayak, but I have always been a canoeist at heart.

In the North skin on frame boats have been around a long time. It is a time honored tradition to build one properly. Do not rush it and do not add modern materials like you are proposing. You will have a mess on your hands.


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PostPosted: April 23rd, 2014, 5:49 pm 
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Joined: July 28th, 2008, 9:29 pm
Posts: 327
Location: Winnipeg
Sadly, I am actually finding the quick canoe to be pretty neat. I may have to build one just for the experience. It looks like it may be the only canoe in the world that will be worse to paddle than a coleman?


Christy


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