Looking for info on how the new super lay-up recipes are holding up now that they have been out for awhile.
Especially Nova Craft Tuff-stuff and H20 Brute force.
I want to buy a large 17ft touring canoe (my 1st new canoe) that will handle medial white water.
Choices down to Tuff-stuff and Brute Force lay-ups in Prospector or the H20 Voyageur design.
Was considering the Mistral 17.5' until I read reviews in MYCCR.
T-Formex seems great but still too heavy for middle aged backs over many portages.
Any experience feedback would be appreciated.
Thank you.

Only experience I have is with my Echoee which I have had for two seasons now. The outer hull is Innegra -- more or less the same as what NC sells as TuffStuff. As a solo boat, it doesn't get the same abrasion as a tandem, but it's been knocked about a bit. So far, only superficial scratches and wear -- about the same as an ABS hull. The light weight and extreme stiffness of the hull make it a very fast boat.

The only issue I have with composite boats is the cost differential. However, at the moment this is a theoretical difference as no one seems to have T-Formex boats for sale.

I have overcome my fears of the seeming fragility of composites. I would, however, stay away from Twintex and its German equivalent (anything with polypropolene in it) as my Zephyr was only factory repairable. There are now some adhesives that will work on Twintex, but they are expensive and require a special applicator.

Thanks for the info.
I guess cost is the price you pay for lighter weight like any camping equipment. The Complete Paddler in Toronto has T-Formex boats for sale.

These are not super laminates, they involve heavy use of Innegra, a HD PolyPro, co-mingled with Basalt, a natural fiber approaching S glass's performance characteristics. Both materials are combined in the same thread, used in both warp and fill. Swift Expedition layup is a similar laminate, available in a more highly rockered river design, John Winter's Dumoine. I've forgotten what they call the composite boat.

I have a 16ft tuff stuff prospector. I used it extensively this hunting season., no long tripping. No wearing issues, though it is one season old. I store it indoors and do not expose it to direct UV as much as possible. I am in my mid 30's so the weight is not too bad but i wouldnt be too pleased on large portages. Mine has aluminum gunwales and thank goodness i chose that for this canoe! I have been bashing and smashing it a lot. Great layup thus far, we wont know how good it is for atleast a few more years being the layup is so new.

Wood and integral synthetic are both superior rail materials. Wood will flex and rebound through deflection angles that would kink aluminum. Wood can also have a short slice applied when broken. I have seen a 6'4" 325 lb.+ guy fall across a Swift tandem with integral rails. He put a stress crack in the hull where it was pinned against the lake bottom but the rails flexed and rebounded with no damage.

I fell against my Rapid Fire.. and bent a thwart.. The rails are fine..

Of interest to those on the border, both Nova Craft and Swift Canoe & Kayak will be displaying their infused laminates including Innegra at Canoecopia 10-12 March in Madison Wisconsin. An opportunity to compare and see Swift's new high tech composite components. It is amazing how wight drops and stiffness increases.

Glad to hear your happy with Tuff Stuff Floats n Boats.
All builders seem to be coming out with similar stuff.
I'm lookin at the H2o Voyageur cause its a cross between tripping and river running.

On Wooden gunnels I would never recommend them to any one except for a strip build canoe Mr. Wilson.
I'll look at the swift though.
Anyone whom I know that has one has had to repair/replace them.
There's a topic for another post, I need feed back on super lay-ups before I drop all my $ on one.
Thanks guys, keep it comin.

I'll defer to Mr. Wilsons lifetime in the canoe building business.

Clearly he has some knowledge . I have replaced several on old canoes( like our 1907 Robertson). They do last a long time if the canoe is not stored upside down on the ground where the tips rot.
I have sixteen other canoes with wooden gunwales. They are stored well and no they do not need replacement even after 30 years.
Aluminum gunwales otoh are the scourge to replace.

Great if you have room to store indoors but most of us are lucky to fit a lawn mower in their garage, let alone a car or canoe.
My 15ft Swift Algonquin is outdoors tarped, on saw horses after replacing gunnels from the previous owner storing it on the ground.
If I'd had the $ I would have taken it back to Swift and had Aluminum gunnels put on it.
Lay-ups is the topic guys.
Thanks.

Well I finally settled on the H2O Voyageur in the Brute Force lay-up.
The demo canoe paddled great in fibreglass.
Jeff says the new Brute force will be a about 52lbs in the new all epoxy lay-up.
I added a removable 3rd seat and skid pads so it'll be a little more.
Happy Paddling.

I did some internet canoe shopping this Spring and H2O makes some nice looking boats. Congratulations on your lifetime investment.

Thanks, I'll give some updates after we run some whitewater.

Been a while but I figure I should post something about the boat.
We are still learning whitewater so nothing serious just the usual scraping and banging down creeeks and small rivers.
The H2O Voyageur did come in at 52lbs w/ third seat so it is light for what I'm used to.
Followed Wanonah YouTube video for thigh strap/pad install.
Bought thigh/knee pad kit from MEC (Northwater), I should have used the fast acting epoxy.
The 24hr stuff was a pain cause the pads w/sand bags wanted to move so I had to brace them in place.
Can feel the extra weight on carries but still nice for 17' boat.
She's a little slow on the open flat water but very responsive on moving water for a big boat.
For comparison my Grummen 17' would be faster on strait flat water.
Needs more correction in open water / big wind but no surprise with rocker 4.5" Bow/2,5" Stern.
It's REALLY stable ( 1st and 2nd ) in ruff waves on lakes and cross waves from Powerboats who don't care at all for canoes, which we seem to have a lot of in the Kawarthas.
Don't know how to say it but it just wants to stay upright and roll/slide with waves.
The Tumblehome makes for comfortable paddling
So far its everything I wanted.