I thought I would start this as a separate thread rather than bury it on page four of the NorthStar outfitting. I like having grab loops at the stems of a canoe; with a taut spray cover making the carry handles inaccessible they become a near necessity for two person/two boat hand hauling to or from a launch, and for attaching painter lines.

On a poly or Royalex canoe the hull material is thick enough that simply drilling a rope hole works, but even with those materials I prefer having a flange inset in the hole. For the kevlar NorthStar I absolutely wanted inset flanges, both to protect the kevlar from rope stress and to protect the rope from kevlar abrasion.

Those can be as simple as installing four ½” (interior hole dimension) conduit box adapters, in the electrical supply aisle of any big box hardware store.

PB040021 by Mike McCrea, on Flickr

Those box adaptors can be installed as is, but it only takes a minute on the little belt sander to knock off the raised “½” E996D PVC” lettering, and to slightly chamfer the 1/8” thick lip to sit more flush against the hull.

PB040023 by Mike McCrea, on Flickr

And spray paint the exposed areas black.

PB040025 by Mike McCrea, on Flickr

RX and poly hulls need no stiffening. With the NorthStar’s thin kevlar sides I wanted a little more beef. Fortunately there are extra layers of fabric sealing the edges of the float tanks. And equally fortunate, the skinny banana float tanks are tapered stem ward towards the top, leaving room to install the conduit flanges close to the ends, so the grab loop rope isn’t overlong.

With that extra fabric thickness there was no need to lay additional Twaron or Kevlar as with the seat brackets or foot brace rails. The OEM multi-layered fabric is nearly ¼” thick at the edge of the float tanks, and the area is much stiffer than the unreinforced sides

I know exactly how thick the fabric is at the float tank fabric overlap; Mr. Woodpuppy may want to avert his eyes for a while. The 1” hole saw bit took out fairly clean (for Kevlar) plugs.

PB040028 by Mike McCrea, on Flickr

PB040027 by Mike McCrea, on Flickr

Egads, now he’s drilling 1” holes in the canoe. Don’t worry, they are well above the waterline, and will be securely capped.

On hulls without float tanks the stem loop holes can be drilled beneficially even closer to the ends. Or positioned further down, even near the cutwater for lining purposes; a piece of Tygon tubing (or even garden hose) can be glued between the box adapter “necks” on the inside for sealed stem loops.

P1090011 by Mike McCrea, on Flickr

P5260016 by Mike McCrea, on Flickr

There were already high-set OEM holes on that canoe. They got capped on the outside for aesthetics.

P5260015 by Mike McCrea, on Flickr

The left-grey flanges are not so aesthetic; I didn’t think to paint them before I epoxied them in place.

Alternatively tubing can be sleeved inside the flange necks from side to side, although for the latter I would use larger diameter box adaptors with a 7/8” ID. Once sleeved with tubing inside those will leave a 5/8” aperture for rope; definitely want the rope to slide easily within the flanges, even more so for lining purposes.

Flange installation was another multi-day epoxy task. NorthStar sideways – AGAIN – the topside set of flanges got G/flexed in place, covered with wax paper and weighed in place with a Zip-lock sand bag.

PB050032 by Mike McCrea, on Flickr

Next day the NorthStar did yet another 180 flip and the flanges were installed on the other side. Which presented an opportunity to run a perimeter bead of thickened G/flex 655 around the neck of the flange inside the canoe while it was on the downhill.

PB050033 by Mike McCrea, on Flickr

And then flipped again so I could run a bead of 655 around the outside edge of the first flange, and bead the other downhill flange neck . And, yes, later flipped again to bead the remaining outside edge.

PB050031 by Mike McCrea, on Flickr

Bless the tall L-brackets screwed into saw horses for holding a canoe sideways. Only have to drill the horses once, the L bracket screws fit in the same holes every time.

PB050035 by Mike McCrea, on Flickr

Epoxy overkill? Maybe, but the thickened G/flex beads weigh and cost very little, and I have a great deal of confidence, some born of abuse from hauling a heavy canoe up a steep hillside or cliff ledge site, using a bowline through those G/flexed box adaptor flanges. I hope never to subject the NorthStar to that kind of abuse, or ever run it on gnarly stuff that needs to be lined.

Flanges firmly epoxied in place I ran the grab loop rope through the box adaptors. With the small deck caps on the NorthStar it was, or would have been, possible to knot the rope inside the stems; on canoes with big honking deck plates not so easy.

But I knotted the rope on the outside anyway. For easy grip no-slip hand kindliness I wanted bicycle handle bar grip toggles on the grab loops, and running the knot inside the toggles provides a center bulge for a better grip. Left to dangle free, which in practice doesn’t occur, the loop/toggle isn’t too low.

PB070037 by Mike McCrea, on Flickr

More critically, my knuckles clear the deck plates when holding the toggle handle at either end, in any orientation, flat or hillside hauling, or swimming-with-canoe episodes.

PB070040 by Mike McCrea, on Flickr

Most critically the NorthStar now has carry handles accessible with the covers in place.

PB070041 by Mike McCrea, on Flickr

And, best of all, the painter lines, rather than being tied off to the carry handles, stressing the spray cover fabric or snaps when run awkwardly out from underneath, are now are clean and clear of cover interference, whether secured under the Velcro keepers on the stern, or with the bow painter run back and secured in the utility thwart’s open clam cleat.

PB080049 by Mike McCrea, on Flickr

I have said this before, but as decrepit clumsy as I have become when exiting a canoe, even on mild water shallow landings, I want a painter line in hand before I even start to get out of the boat. Add in fast current or a steep bank and, eh, I’d prefer not to wade in after a free range canoe heading downriver without me.

Oh, the inhumanity!



Looking good Mike. From our conversations about rope etc., you’d recommended 1/4” polypropylene for painters and tie downs, and I have since handled some and agree that size will work. In the pic above is that 1/4” rope, and also is that 1/4” bungee on the thwart? If so you’ll understand my confusion- bungee seems to be true to measurement but the rope is all thicker than spec.

awesome stuff, cheaper than tugeyes. i like the black hand bar as well, very nice touch.
i mean grip

ps woodpup,
that yellow rope looks 3/8 to me. unless mike has especially massive hand.
the bungee is likely 1/4.

1/4 is good for painters but grab loop can be larger diameter,
and is sometimes much preferred.

ill bet that black-yellow rope is 1/4 and bungee 3/16.
in my experience bungee has been more true to spec than ropes have been,

i think it's because with ropes the sheath is a looser weave,
the diameter changes when any tension is applied or released,

whereas with bungee the sheath is pretty skin tight.
eg, not easy to 'pick' at it to raise a bit of it up, whereas with many ropes it is.

so i think, many ropes have a certain ambiguity involved as to their diameters,
sort of like canoe rockers do, for similar reasons,

fox40 has an excellent painter rope (borderline lining rope), that is stiff, tighter weave,
and is marked as 3/8
but it's smaller in dia. than my other 3/8 lines. (until i put somewhat casual tension on them)

"PB070041 by Mike McCrea, on Flickr

And, best of all, the painter lines, rather than being tied off to the carry handles, stressing the spray cover fabric or snaps when run awkwardly out from underneath, are now are clean and clear of cover interference, whether secured under the Velcro keepers on the stern, or with the bow painter run back and secured in the utility thwart’s open clam cleat."

I like this setup. Painters tied to grab loops that don't interfere with spray covers nor drag in the water.

_________________
Brian
http://www.JohnstonPursuits.ca

 

I find 1/4” high strength floating rope fine for flatwater canoes. For downriver/WW canoes I prefer beefier 5/16” river rescue rope, it is easier on the hands in extremis. The downside to 5/16” rope for roof rack bow and belly lines is that any knots or hitches are massive.

Measured with a caliper the bungee is a hair under ¼”, which is the largest diameter bungee that will fit through a Sgt. Knots crown spring cord lock so the bungee tension is adjustable.

The yellow & black painter line in the photos is high tensile strength floating poly rope. Measured with a caliper it is exactly ¼”. Great rope, ties good knots and hitches, except it is not very compressible when held in the teeth of the open cam cleat. It was since been replaced with softer floating poly line that holds better when snugged in the cleat. That line does tie and hold a good hitch, so I’ll use it to replace some old roof rack belly lines.

That “compressible” rope aspect is an issue when using open clam cleats. Not a problem when using a spring loaded roller cleat, but those cleats are oversize overkill for the NorthStar.

https://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B08P5 ... UTF8&psc=1

The grab loops are 5/16” floating river rescue line. I will use different length and strength painter lines depending on the trip, but the grab loops stay, so I use high quality line for that application.

There are three different diameters of rope on the NorthStar, all high quality line, each suited for specific applications.

Thanks Mike! I’ll be doing almost exclusively flatwater paddling in Florida, and if I get a chance to run any whitewater it’ll probably be raft tours for the foreseeable future. I don’t know if the Phoenix will come with carry loops or just the holes. We’ll see.

I don't recall seeing through hole stem holes on any Northstar canoe other than the WW Ocoee.

Standard on the boats with wood trim. They’ll install lining holes as well.

Good to know. I wonder why they don’t come with every Northstar canoe/gunwale system?

I have never understood the lack of through-hull grab loops on some canoes. For almost any purpose a grab loop is handier than carry handles. Not just spray cover occlusion; swimming close behind a capsized hull kicking desperately for shore? Grab loop.

Lining or tracking? Lower, sealed grab loop.

I trust through-hull holes, especially solidly flanged ones, to be more failsafe than slender carry handles attached with two machine screws. Beyond capsize oopsies I use the painters springlined with oppositional pulling force when tying down my boats in camp, so they are immovably wind proofed.

Same with roof racked. I’d rather use those loops for bow and stern tie downs when in transport; I’ve seen what happens to SS machine screws when repeatedly stressed. Bent wanked at best, catastrophically failed at worst.

“Solidly flanged”; too many manufacturers who do install through hull grab loops use the flimsiest flange imaginable. I’m looking at you Mad River; I think I am batting below the Mendoza Line with flimsy MRC flanges failures, chewed through, dislodged and fallen loose on the rope.

If I had still intact OEM grab loop flanges I’d be tempted to run bead of G/flex 655 inside and out for longevity assurance.

Nice addition. On our royalex (or T-Formex) we just drill a hole near the top so it is way above the water line (like the capped ones you showed). Hole is just big enough for the rope to fit so even when we're riding some waves or in whitewater it doesn't really leak noticeably (or at all? can't tell behind the airbags and the splashing coming in anyways!).

Those darn handles aren't nearly as strong as before. Our oldest canoe has by far the strongest one (thick wood reinforced), now it's just plastic or a small piece of wood inside, we've bent some just from strapping it on vehicles... This additional rope is much better, more comfortable for lift-overs and a more reliable way of doing it.

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Trip reports from our adventures: https://ssprod.me/trip-reports/list-of-trip-reports/