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PostPosted: January 25th, 2023, 9:08 pm 
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Joined: November 29th, 2007, 7:47 pm
Posts: 48
Location: mainly in Maine, my o my, moved to Maryland.
Image16735377882405635072639347983573 by woodersonj, on Flickr


This followed me home recently. Maybe someone here is familiar with such a craft? It's way down the project que and will need significant glass work, but for now I'm pondering what kind of rudder to put on it and seating arrangements.


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PostPosted: January 26th, 2023, 7:45 am 
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Joined: June 28th, 2001, 7:00 pm
Posts: 2532
Location: Freeland, Maryland USA
bark-eater wrote:
This followed me home recently. Maybe someone here is familiar with such a craft? It's way down the project que and will need significant glass work, but for now I'm pondering what kind of rudder to put on it and seating arrangements.


Bark-eater, cool boat. Unique boat too, the only open cockpit tandem kayak, or “European Style Touring Canoe” that carries that much depth to both stems. The only design I have seen with no cockpit coaming.

Kind of a rare boat too. I have now seen a grand total of three Sockeyes; the one we own, one Craigslisted years ago and now yours.

What might one do with an Old Town Sockeye?

Well, personally I would soloize it and put a rudder and sail on it. The Sockeye was the first of that ilk tandem open cockpit kayak I turned into a solo decked sailing tripper. I have since converted a Phoenix Vagabond, a Klepper Kamerad and three Hyperform Optimas. And a Pamlico 145 and Pamlico 160.

The Sockeye remains the best sailing canoe we own.

ImageMike M Sailing 01 by Mike McCrea, on Flickr

(Photo courtesy of Charlie Wilson)

What kind of rudder? I’m partial to Feathercraft rudders, now out of business but you might find a used one. With Mohawk (once Werner, then Yakima) foot pedals. All three items on this page make on set of those rudder pedals:

https://www.mohawkcanoes.com/collection ... dder-track

Or, in lieu of a Feathercraft rudder one of the old school gravity deploy rudders, akin to what was OEM on the Kruger boats like the Sea Wind and Monarch.

What kind of seating arrangement? Lotta choices, but at minimum something high enough to single blade. I have put in a Wenonah sliding bucket, a fixed Wenonah bucket, a Wilderness Phase3 elevated on a minicell base and bucket pans sans aluminum platform elevated on minicell bases.

A few of those conversions are here:

https://myccr.com/phpbbforum/viewtopic.php?f=49&t=48937

Including the most recent; Sexy Thang, the third ‘70’s Hyperform Lettmann Optima converted to a solo decked sailing tripper.

ImagePB030018 by Mike McCrea, on Flickr

Go for it. A couple hundred bucks in parts and pieces and you can have a decked sailing tripper. There is nothing quite like sailing a loaded tripper on big open water with the rudder down.

Or, sometimes, sailing one on shallow narrow waters.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jU2mE83Gi0M


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PostPosted: January 26th, 2023, 8:42 am 
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Joined: November 29th, 2007, 7:47 pm
Posts: 48
Location: mainly in Maine, my o my, moved to Maryland.
Hi Mike, The hull will need some internal patching at the minimum. While I'm at it, a Wenonah Sliding pedestal seems like the most direct route, and is very much reversible if I ever get organized enough to put a Kruger style seat in.

The original rudder was still on the boat, but shattered when I was rolling the boat over for the initial scrubbing. I still have the blade, and its pretty small compared to a Klepper blade. I'm assuming it was used more as a "trim tab" than for steering.

How do you think the boat would handle with out a rudder? I've paddled the Klepper Kamerad around with out a rudder and it paddles similarly to my solo canoe with a single blade, but with less windage.

The Sockeye has a "V" bottom, so it may be a better down wind sailing hull than the Klepper.

I've been looking at the Smartrack rudder system as an available alternative to the Feather Craft rudders.

I have the technology, and a local scrap yard, so a home made plate rudder is a possibility. I do think the various shaped foils on the Smartrack would be "faster" though.

In general I think this hull might be better suited to "Kruger/McCraeization" than the Kamerad, so I may end leaving the Klepper closer to its original outfitting


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PostPosted: January 27th, 2023, 9:20 am 
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Joined: June 28th, 2001, 7:00 pm
Posts: 2532
Location: Freeland, Maryland USA
A Wenonah pedestal slider makes ease-of-installation sense. I bought the one I installed from Wenonah, making it the single greatest expense in that conversion.

A Wenonah bucket on a tall, fixed pedestal is probably less expensive, although dependent on finding that ideal fore-aft location before installation. I have sliders in a couple boats, but rarely move them once I find my sweet spot.

In the short term it may not be an option. If a Wenonah bucket of any sort is in your plans you might want to check into availability sooner rather than later; Wenonah has been holding back on some of their products to meet their own needs.

The fixed Wenonah bucket was something I took out of another shop boat and reused, all of the other seats were likewise stuff I had on hand. Use it up, wear it out, make it do . . . . be true to my frugal Scot’s heritage.

The OEM rudder on the Sockeye was junk. UV brittle white plastic housing and blade and no retraction cord; you literally had to get out of the boat, walk to the stern, up/down the rudder by hand and tighten a wing nut. No foot pedal controls, just a continuous cord through pulleys to be moved/held by hand.

One of those cord holding paddlers in OEM tandem guise wasn’t attached a paddle. Held between bare toes when paddling solo? Uh, yeah, good riddance to all those vintage crudities.

When I initially refurbished the Sockeye I returned it to factory specs, with a giant slab of minicell replacing the degraded ethafoam tandem seat(s) pad. It was often paddled without that useless rudder deployed; the Sockeye was not too hard to control when solo in that manner, but having no rudder took away a lot of making-miles downwind sailing ease.

The initial Sockeye rudderless rebuild did take first place in a couple Bay races. OK, the first time we were the only “Tandem Rec Kayak” entered in our class, the second time the other two TRK’s capsized in a boat wake. Delightfully just in sight ahead of us; we weren’t catching them. The Sockeye’s odd “torpedo” hull is surprisingly seaworthy, and we also finished first in the Father-Son class one year.

(We finished “first” in that race for years, in a variety of weirdo boats. Like my paddling pal Dave winning the Blue Ribbon at the State Fair every year for growing some oddball only-entry vegetable in his garden, “The First Place Ribbon goes to Mr. Dave M for his Tomateogatchi”. I couldn’t pronounce half the stuff he entered. Neither could the judges)

There are worse behaved hulls in wind and wave than the Sockeye. I had a foot pedal dislodge on one of the Hyperform Optimas. DougD had a rudder-failure issue with his Optima. We agreed that the Optima is, by far, the most rudder dependent boat either of us have ever paddled. The Optima, seemingly not that different in appearance from kin and cousin designs, is almost unmanageable in any wind without a rudder.

About rudders - I have heard from several folks who were unhappy with their Smarttrack rudders; lots of finicky little parts and pieces and springs in the control housing, which seemingly do not fare well in saltwater, and are difficult to replace. There isn’t a lot that can go wrong with a Feathercraft rudder, but they ended production in 2016.

The Smarttrack gas pedal foot control/brace system on the other hand is a thing of beauty, usable both as toe-movable rudder pedals and as ball-of foot-braces. The Smarttrack rudder costs $300. Sealect rudders are a little less expensive, but would probably need a longer blade on the Sockeye.

https://www.outdoorplay.com/products/se ... BHEALw_wcB

We put a used Feathercraft tandem rudder with Smarttrack pedals (actually half price knock-offs) on a friend’s Wenonah Voyager.

ImageP9210011 by Mike McCrea, on Flickr

Further description here:

https://myccr.com/phpbbforum/viewtopic.php?f=49&t=49427

Those knock off Smarttrack gas pedal/foot braces, probably made on the same line in the same Guangzhou factory, are available here:

https://www.amazon.com/NovelBee-Adjusta ... 6847917098

Next rebuild with a rudder will get a set of those knock-off “NovelBee” foot pedal/braces.

To install a modern (or antique) rudder on the Sockeye you will probably need a couple gudgeons. Lots of gudgeon choices at Duckworks. Rudder in hand first, then find the gudgeons that fit the stern stem.

https://duckworks.com/gudgeons/

I wouldn’t call the bottom of my Sockeye a vee, more of a continuous shallow arch. Unless you can find a Feathercraft rudder from a tandem kayak, or another rudder with a very long blade, making your own your longer blade may be the best option. With the Sockeye’s high stems the rudder from a standard Feathercraft single will not have a lot of blade catch submerged in the water. Feathercraft’s K2 rudders were beefy heavy, but foolproof and bombproof.

Sometimes people buy into the “Rudders are a crutch, just learn how to paddle” nonsense and remove them. When running a sail, or just paddling into a cross headwind, I’d much rather have a rudder available.

You might try posting an “ISO used rudder” message. I found the old-school rudder installed on Sexy Thang was that way. A no-pully gravity deployed rudder is much more easily field repairable than a Smarttrcack or Sealect. If parts break on one of those maybe Doordash makes waterborne remote deliveries. Order me a burrito while you’re at it.

“Mainly in Maine, my o my, moved to Maryland” you say. I’m in Freeland, just south of the Mason-Dixon Line off I-83. If you are in the neighborhood someday stop by. I’m usually out in the shop putzing with a boat.

Which I need to get back do. But meh, gloved epoxy and Dynel work, or clean fingers pecking at the keyboard. I’d rather do this.


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PostPosted: January 28th, 2023, 12:23 pm 
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Joined: November 29th, 2007, 7:47 pm
Posts: 48
Location: mainly in Maine, my o my, moved to Maryland.
ImageKIMG0141 (1) by woodersonj, on Flickr

I guess its not really a "V" hull but I think it will have more inherent lateral resistant than the completely rounded Klepper hull.

I looked around at the commercially available rudders, and the "Seaward" designs are interesting. The original is all metal and the newer version is mostly plastic. I'm wondering if the plastic blade will fit in the metal rudder head.

https://shop.seawardkayaks.ca/collections/rudders/products/rudder-k2

https://shop.seawardkayaks.ca/collections/rudders/products/rudder-k1

https://boutiqueborealdesign.com/collections/skeg-rudder/products/seaward-rudder?variant=28063883067476

As far as making a rudder, this page has a good design and a bunch of engineering considerations covered:

https://www.watertribe.com/Magazine/Y2005/M06/LarryMillerRudder.aspx

And if you've got time to go down a rabbit hole:

https://www.westcoastpaddler.com/community/threads/lets-talk-rudders.1862/


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