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PostPosted: August 30th, 2009, 7:00 pm 
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Here's a thought:
(and one I'd like some serious feedback on)

What's the big deal ?

It's not like we're posting our personal financial information on our Facebook pages ?

If Facebook really wants to snoop through my endless array of canoe tripping / winter camping / world traveling photos... who cares ?
That's why I posted them there: to share.
I'f I didn't want others to see them, they'd be sitting on my coffee table, not posted on a website...
And what else is on Facebook ? Endless chatter between friends and family ? It's not like we're exchanging our secret plans for world domination, etc... more like just: "Hey... how 'ya doing these days?"

Just my two cents...

Seems like much ado about nothing...


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PostPosted: August 31st, 2009, 5:04 am 
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What's the big deal ?

Good question.

On my part, I don't want strangers to know as much about me as my friends and family do. Ever hit a situation where a salesman shocks you by knowing too much about your buying habits? I have. The sales folks would love it of they could spam us in a targeted fashion, for instance.

It's a good feature of our culture that we deny others - including government agencies - unlimited access to information about us.

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PostPosted: August 31st, 2009, 7:34 am 
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Facebook is simply a fancy way to gain your consent to track, trace, and database you. Do not provide them with ANY personal information or photos.

Google: Facebook arrest

We know we are being watched by cameras on the streets, we know all our emails, internet search, histories, and phone calls are being monitored and can be requested by police WITHOUT a court order or warrant. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tw-wc5yp-ME We know they won't let us out of the country without a showing them our microchips ( in our passport ).

Why would anyone provide even more information to the police state willingly?

Make a stand. Don't give them an inch.

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PostPosted: September 1st, 2009, 4:27 pm 
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I am not that pessimistic about the state of our "police state" - even though it's a reality that could catch you bad if you are of the wrong religion, the wrong origin, the wrong looks or is politically active. But as you say, why make the nasties' job easier?!

But realizing that FB is one of today's tools, the decision to stay away from it completely may deprive you of an effective tool. My question is what is a safe and effective use of FB?

Previous posters have given useful answers already:

* "...to share pictures with friends and family. I keep better contact with family now than I ever did before."

* "...to hook up with long lost friends, or to simply find out 'where are they now'."

I see environmental orgs using it to reach that might be interested but aren't on their distribution list - folks through their friends and so far it has been clean as one would have to accept the "invitation" to sign up.

When I see that friend xxx has played game Blurb-Busters to a record 17th level, do I care? Or that a friend of a friend has given a "thumbs-up" to some picture somewhere? Over time, I doubt that FB will sustain its success as we are all suffering from information overload already. Folks will tune out....

Quote:
I searched you Erhard.....nothing came up.....send chills?

Gail, I am hurt. A spelling error in your search - it musta been... :wink:

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PostPosted: September 1st, 2009, 5:31 pm 
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A google search was quite productive, Erhard. Turned up your Facebook portal, or whatever it's called. :D

Me don't do dat Facebook thing. Don't plan to for quite a long time.



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PostPosted: September 2nd, 2009, 4:48 am 
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We have a pretty good on-going show on Québec TV (SRC) called 'Infoman'.

At one point Michael Ignatieff had his eyebrows somewhat shaved.

So guess what. Infoman made a character of these eyebrows. The eyebrows of Michael Ignatieff. And they were travelling all around the world, and pictures were there to show them in all different places.

Well, a facebook page was made with this character. 'The eyebrows of Michael Ignatieff' (Les sourcils de Michael Ignatieff). And it turned out at some point that the eyebrows had at least just about the same amount of facebook friends that Ignatieff himself had on facebook.


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PostPosted: September 2nd, 2009, 9:19 am 
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Erhard wrote:
My question is what is a safe and effective use of FB?


Erhard, I'm not sure there is a correct answer. Unfortunately, I think it's an issue you need to come to your own answer about. I personally find the constant posting about individuals every action on Facebook a bit narcissisitic. I agree the online games, and gift trading doesn't really interest me, but as noted you can block those applications from being sent to you. But it's interesting to reconnect with people you've met and on a certain level be a part of certain aspects of their lives, like looking at public photos of life events, or hearing that their children graduated, got married, are in college.

Unfortunately, you can control who your friends are, but you can't control what they do. Yes, someone can post a photo of you naked with a bong that they had from college 40 years ago, or you mashing with some unknown guy/girl at a party. These photos can them be linked to your account, and are all out there for the world to see. These photos can have far reaching implications.

Facebook is alot like friendship... you have to extend yourself a little to benefit from it... but it's up to you to determine how far to extend yourself for your own comfort. That's true for Facebook too.

PK


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PostPosted: September 3rd, 2009, 6:32 am 
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... but it's up to you to determine how far to extend yourself for your own comfort.

That sums up my predicament and I am still trying to figure it out. And FB rules seem to be a moving target with a few more surprises in the future...

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PostPosted: September 3rd, 2009, 7:45 am 
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Erhard wrote:
Quote:
And FB rules seem to be a moving target with a few more surprises in the future...


Not that this is an official FB rule, but it certainly counts as a surprise....

The headline reads:

Area School Wants Access To Students’ Social Networking Passwords

A PUBLIC school in the USofA will NOT enroll children without thier facebook passwords. "If they don't want to comply, there are plenty of other schools to go to"

Read the whole artical here: http://www2.wjbf.com/jbf/news/state_reg ... ing/19177/

Could this be the crest of a wave? Might is set a precedent for the workplace?

Did I mention Googling "Facebook arrests"?

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PostPosted: September 3rd, 2009, 7:53 am 
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Facebook.... a really good way to get infected with viruses and malware trojans.

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PostPosted: September 3rd, 2009, 10:51 am 
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I'm not sure why anyone gives a damn. It's Facebook....be on it or don't be, it's your choice. It's hardly necessary or required for survival.

It's 3rd party advertising that you're being exposed to. Nothing new there.

And Adventureaddict, sending kids to a Christian school is a choice also, I believe. Cherrypicking dramatic bits out of a news story is rather misleading.

(also...when you change the colour of a url, it renders it unclickable. I fixed it for you.)



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PostPosted: September 3rd, 2009, 12:38 pm 
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Barbara wrote:
And Adventureaddict, sending kids to a Christian school is a choice also, I believe. Cherrypicking dramatic bits out of a news story is rather misleading.

(also...when you change the colour of a url, it renders it unclickable. I fixed it for you.)
Barbara


Barbara,

Thank you kindly for the tip and the fix.

I feel that a public, state run school mandating away the privacy of any citizen, minor or not is an infringement on human rights, and therefor very dramatic indeed. Do you think the schools should also have the right to record all the children's phone conversations? Read their mail? emails? Where do you think the line should be drawn?

So, we have now established that we no longer have privacy rights on our computers or phones here in Canada. That is a given. CBC REPORT:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tw-wc5yp-ME

Not to mention the cameras overhead in cities, you know, the ones the Privacy Minister vehemently opposed?

Many say,"I have nothing to hide. I do nothing wrong, so I have nothing to fear by being constantly watched by the state."

The problem with that statement is this: Who controls what the definition of wrong is? You? Me? The people? No we don't. Far too often supranational unelected agencies control those definitions. Be they the UN, the W.H.O. the IMF or simply a huge multination corporation. Currently our Canadian charter of rights is superseded by international laws handed down from the WHO. Did you or I or ANYONE vote for the people that currently decide the definition of wrong?

Here is what has been decided FOR us, not by us, Lou Dobbs reports on the Security and Prosperity Partnership:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=H65f3q_L ... CB&index=4

Were we asked to vote on that?

When we start traveling down this slippery slope, grinning and inviting state surveillance that whole way, it is bound to result in further infringements and the revoking of other rights. This is WELL documented throughout history, both recent and ancient. Let us look back, remember, and learn from it.

Thank you for your time.

-Kyle

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PostPosted: September 3rd, 2009, 12:40 pm 
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Erhard bye.....that's why I cut and pasted your name from your patigonia vacation on your website.....and no one was twittering about you :P

I don't think it's as simple as that Barbara. Among peers sure...but I think educators and professionals who have to maintain a degree of proveable seperation should be very careful who they accept as friends.

As an indirect example, I have a relative that is an addict of sorts and rather simple, harmless but judgment off; I don't necesarily feel that is a safe mix in my network that includes parent/kid combo teams in the dance group. whatever she posts on my board is visable

or any of the applications now where you can put a bullet hole in a picture and post it. Just makes me shake my head

I'm not myopic to think I matter so I accept just about anyone as a friend but it's neive to think there aren't specific situations where miss mangament or careless behavior on FB couldn't have implications in the real world.

Obama proved it can be a great tool...... but he had an iron clad fist on what was allowed or wasn't and deliberatly set out to aquire or bully and shut down un-official "fan" groups

For Joe average....meh.....It's the net mate...sort of like tellin' Wally in Walk-About-Creek anything right?

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PostPosted: September 3rd, 2009, 12:58 pm 
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Quote:
I feel that a public, state run school mandating away the privacy of any citizen, minor or not is an infringement on human rights, and therefor very dramatic indeed. Do you think the schools should also have the right to record all the children's phone conversations? Read their mail? emails? Where do you think the line should be drawn?


If kids and teachers are using the school's time and internet connection to twitter away their days, then, YES, the school has every right to monitor the activity.

Just like responsible parents should be doing when the activity is happening in their houses.

Quote:
So, we have now established that we no longer have privacy rights on our computers or phones here in Canada.

Are you really, really surprised that you don't have total privacy? Really? This is news to you?

I understand that the school is question is not a "state-run" school, but a private, Christian school. Do these schools get government funding in the USA?

The decision to send kids to these schools is entirely up to the parents.

The one quote alone tells a lot:
Quote:
Dr. Edward Martin, Jr.: “We don’t expect perfection, we expect compliance.”



Quote:
Does a school have a right to demand access to your child’s Facebook or Myspace account? That’s the question some local parents are asking. School leaders say it’s all about making sure the students adhere to the school policies and they claim it’s not an invasion of privacy.

Doctor Edward Martin, Jr. is the principal at Victory Christian School, in North Augusta. He says all students are required to follow their biblical curriculum.

Dr. Edward Martin, Jr.: “We don’t expect perfection, we expect compliance.”

It’s compliance to a new school policy that’s turning some heads. If an administrator suspects a student of unruly behavior, that student could be required to give school leaders their password and username to their Facebook or Myspace account.

Dr. Martin: “Several years ago, we had a student and he was bragging about alcohol that he drank on the weekends, he was telling everybody that he went to our school.”

Dr. Martin says this policy is in place to protect the sanctity of the school and it’s not an invasion of privacy.

Dr. Martin: ”We are looking for families that agree with this philosophy, and if they don’t, that’s fine. There’s plenty of schools they can choose to go to.”

Attorney Robert Mullins disagrees.

Robert Mullins: ”It’s basically an invasion of privacy rights, and if they were doing the conduct at school, on a school computer, that would be one thing. But, if they are doing it on a home computer, that’s a totally different thing.”

Deborah Ryufuku, parent: “If the student insists on using Facebook or Myspace at school, which I think should not ever occur, then I think the school does have the right to monitor it.”

Tiffany Dukes, parent: “On the other hand, I agree with the school because if it’s a Christian-based school, they don’t want anything in their school that is not appropriate.”

And, Dr. Martin claims to have backing. He says the school is following the advice of the South Carolina Association of Christian Schools.

We’ve gotten lots of response on our Facebook page. You, too, can join the conversation.


I love the last bit in the news item. :lol:

Private or government-funded, no matter, my point is "so what?".

If this sort of thing bothers you, then don't sign up for Facebook, or Twitter, or any of that stuff. And don't let your kids have it. Pretty simple. At least it was, right up until they invented all this "social network" crapola.

And those freaking cellphones. :evil:



Barbara

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PostPosted: September 3rd, 2009, 1:31 pm 
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Barbara wrote:
I'm not sure why anyone gives a damn. It's Facebook....be on it or don't be, it's your choice. It's hardly necessary or required for survival.

It's 3rd party advertising that you're being exposed to. Nothing new there.

And Adventureaddict, sending kids to a Christian school is a choice also, I believe. ....

That Christian school thing - I'll leave that one alone.

But FB does more than 3rd party advertising - it coerces you to reveal personal info and makes you believe you have control over some security aspects - like the privacy commissioner pointed out. To get more insight into the exposure is the purpose of this thread.

FB is a big thing for certain groups in society - it could become as important as Google is to us now (who would have thought that 10 years ago?). If you want to reach those folks you have to become a user as well. I don't need it because it's "necessary or required for my survival" but I am still active in advocacy and thus I cannot afford to ignore the common tools.

By the way, I had a talk with M on the visibility problem with this thread and accept her suggestion to leave it alone. The last thing I want to do is give you guys a hard time. And the term "guys" is not gender-specific, in case you are wondering...

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